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The streets are not paved with gold .

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gasbanni

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:54 pm Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17183171


Must be a nightmare and to be too ashamed to tell his family about their broken dreams...... sad.
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Arthur2shedsJackson

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:02 pm Reply with quote

If only he could swallow his pride and tell his family they may be able to help him obtain copies of the paperwork he needs to identify himself and enable the hard worked British Authorities to ship him home.
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joe-90

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:02 pm Reply with quote

Why doesn't our government take out full page ads in their papers to show what it's really like? BTW how could he be a heating engineer if he isn't registered?
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merlin50

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:22 pm Reply with quote

why not just put them on an Italian cruise ship
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joinerjohn

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:03 pm Reply with quote

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gasbanni

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:03 pm Reply with quote

joe-90 wrote:
Why doesn't our government take out full page ads in their papers to show what it's really like? BTW how could he be a heating engineer if he isn't registered?


Very good question, you cant do assessments without your nat ins no !
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SimonH2

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:14 pm Reply with quote

joe-90 wrote:
BTW how could he be a heating engineer if he isn't registered?

You don't need to be registered to be a "heating engineer" (is that poshed up speak for "plumber" ?). You only need to be registered to do it legally - and as he's here illegally then one more detail is neither here nor there. I'm sure there are plenty of people happy to pay cash for a discount job.
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Djnikon

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:56 am Reply with quote

I watched the news segment on this chap last night. Giving his interview, hiding his face.
He paid roughly 10k to traffickers to get over here (which immediately tells you something ain't quite above board), gets here finds out we are in as much cack as everywhere else and then complains that there is "no government help"... Hello... You're here ILLEGALLY!!! Clue is in the statement.

And on the point of no documents, why don't we just ask them all where they are from, ship them off back there on boats and planes (other forms of transport are available) and let the "home country" border agency deal with them?

Too hard to send someone back without paperwork - MY a**e!
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SimonH2

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:51 am Reply with quote

Djnikon wrote:
He paid roughly 10k to traffickers to get over here (which immediately tells you something ain't quite above board), gets here finds out we are in as much cack as everywhere else and then complains that there is "no government help"... Hello... You're here ILLEGALLY!!! Clue is in the statement.

There have been numerous programs/reports/etc over the years that lead me to believe - yes, he (or his family) probably did pay all that money to get him here for "a better life". It's easy to poo-poo the whole idea, but put yourself in their shoes ...
The one I saw said that his family put up the money - including selling land. I'd guess they were subsistence farmers, and now they have even less land to earn a living from. From their POV, the streets probably are paved with gold here. They'll know little of England other than what gets reported back. They probably get to hear of people (like some of the imported IT workers) who get here with well paid jobs, and in relative terms are millionaires. They probably never hear about those who end up like the ones in that report - and the traffickers are going to be very selective in the information they provide.

There probably is scope for a massive information campaign aimed at the poor who are targeted by the traffickers. Get the message across that they would be wasting their money coming here illegally. It won't be an easy sell though.

Quote:
And on the point of no documents, why don't we just ask them all where they are from, ship them off back there on boats and planes (other forms of transport are available) and let the "home country" border agency deal with them?

Too hard to send someone back without paperwork - MY a**e!

OK, suppose someone lands up at (say) Heathrow with no papers, having been deported from <somewhere> and claiming to be British. What would our authorities do ? What would you expect them to do ? I think the answer to both would be "not let them in and pack them back to whoever sent them - until they can prove they have a right to be here". I think you'd have something to say if they were let in because "they claim to be British" icon_rolleyes.gif

Why should any other country be different ?
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pred

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:21 pm Reply with quote

Djnikon wrote:
I watched the news segment on this chap last night. Giving his interview, hiding his face.
He paid roughly 10k to traffickers to get over here (which immediately tells you something ain't quite above board), gets here finds out we are in as much cack as everywhere else and then complains that there is "no government help"... Hello... You're here ILLEGALLY!!! Clue is in the statement.

And on the point of no documents, why don't we just ask them all where they are from, ship them off back there on boats and planes (other forms of transport are available) and let the "home country" border agency deal with them?

Too hard to send someone back without paperwork - MY a**e!



Surely a simple gene test would probably indicate where they came from.
Vearing off at a tangent, i have not got a problem with my genetic code being held by the police if it would help to put paedophiles and rapist behind bars everyone entering our country could have a quick swab, there again before the do gooders raise their voice to high, I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE.
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Djnikon

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:47 pm Reply with quote

But that gene test would take time, effort and above all money. So if they say they come from Jordan, send them back and let the Jordanians sort it out. If they ain't from here they ain't our problem.

I know, I know, that's not how we work here. I was shot off in to a little utopia there - back in reality now...
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pred

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:59 pm Reply with quote

Djnikon wrote:
But that gene test would take time, effort and above all money. So if they say they come from Jordan, send them back and let the Jordanians sort it out. If they ain't from here they ain't our problem.

I know, I know, that's not how we work here. I was shot off in to a little utopia there - back in reality now...


On the plus side, look how many we could get off the dole queues working in gene banks, also once word got out that we no longer had wide open doors the illeagles might go elsewhere.
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SimonH2

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:46 pm Reply with quote

pred wrote:
Surely a simple gene test would probably indicate where they came from.

No it doesn't.
This came up on the TV some time ago when I think someone prominent raised it. A simple gene test could only tell the region someone came from, it could not narrow it down to a specific country, let alone an area within that country.

People migrate all the time, and so the genetic codes in any area is always a mish-mash of input from areas round about (and further afield). And look at India and Pakistan. Not that long ago (yesterday in evolutionary terms) they were one and the same country - then partition happened and mass migrations along with it. And you expect a genetic test to determine whether someone came from Pakistan or India, bearing in mind that families in each country could have grown up in the same village for many, many generations - only moving apart relatively recently ?

Djnikon wrote:
But that gene test would take time, effort and above all money. So if they say they come from Jordan, send them back and let the Jordanians sort it out. If they ain't from here they ain't our problem.

And they aren't (in your example) Jordan's problem either if they aren't Jordanian.

So, suppose you wanted to get into Britain. That policy would mean you'd only need to travel to <some other country>, tell them you are British when you get caught or apply for voluntary deportation, and that country sends them to Britain where we'd effectively have no choice but to accept them until we could prove where they actually came from.
Good plan icon_rolleyes.gif
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emilybronte

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:20 pm Reply with quote

pred wrote:


Too hard to send someone back without paperwork - MY a**e!



pred wrote:
Surely a simple gene test would probably indicate where they came from.


Er...no. you have been reading too much science fiction.

Whilst analysis of an individual's DNA may yield some clues to his broad ethnic origin, it will (obviously!) not reveal his nationality - which is a political issue, not a biological one. You cannot 'ship someone back' to 'the Middle East' or 'East Africa' or 'Northern Europe'. Which country?

SimonH2 is right. (Sorry Simon, my post crossed with yours)
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sooey

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:32 pm Reply with quote

Another bleeding heart!!!! You're username says it all. icon_rolleyes.gif
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