Plaster falling from the ceiling!

[Kaymo]

Hi,
Loud crash last night and found that a large section of the living room ceiling is now on the floor. Its a lathe and plaster ceiling which was probably originally fitted about 100 years ago but has had artex over the top. I think that the cause was a plaster centre peice above the light which had been glued to the ceiling by a previous owner and the weight of it has over time pulled the plaster away from the lathe, or it may just be chronic old age!

I phoned the house insurance and they say its not covered so its probably DIY time, although I will have to get someone in to skim it as thats

Anyways, I dont know a lot about this and was hoping someone could advise on the best thing to do from here. Its it worth attempting to repair the area that has come down then get it skimmed over the artex or is it best to pull all the lathe and plaster down and replace with plasterboard?

Thanks, any advice much appreciated.

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[joe-90]

You can usually cut plasterboard to fit in the new recess then skim.

 

[Kaymo]

Thanks Joe, is it best to cut away the old lathe back to the battens and then fit the new plasterboard, or fit the new plasterboard over the top of the lathe?

 

[Alastairreid]

You need to check the rest of the ceiling is sound first.

If the rest is solid enough square off the existing hole in the plaster and cut a piece of board to fit.
I wouldnt bother trying to remove the laths as you may bring the rest of the ceiling down.

 

[Kaymo]

Thanks Alistair, coincidentally I checked the ceiling last night after clearing up the mess and there is another crack which has now appeared in another part of the ceiling so I am in two minds now as to whether to pull it all down or overboard it.

If I overboard with plaster is there any sense in using insulated plasterboard given that this is a downstairs room. I know that you normally only insulate outside walls/ceilings but I always feel that we lose a lot of heat from this ceiling and it doesnt seem to go into the room above?

 

[Johnmelad]

If this was my home I would pull the lot down and plasterboard. Be aware, this is a hugely messy and dusty job.

 

[Alastairreid]

As john said take the lot down.

Insulating from room to room will not improve thermal efficiency.

 

[roughcaster]

Is the cornice around the room in good condition? If it is and you want to keep it as an original feature, be careful, very careful, when you remove the old ceiling plaster, as the cornice is connected to the ceiling.
Another thing, if the old wooden lath is in good nick, i'd leave them on and board over them using longer screws. Just make sure you remove all the remnants of plaster hanging down from between the lath, plus check there are no nails protruding. If you're wanting to keep the cornice, let me know and i'll tell what i always do in that situation.

 

[Kaymo]

Thanks all,

As john said take the lot down.

Insulating from room to room will not improve thermal efficiency.

I know what you mean but I do feel that I lose heat through this ceiling, although its possibly because cold air is coming up through the walls from the suspended floor and passing through between the ceiling and upstairs floor so this is why I was thinking of insulated plasterboard.

Regarding the cornice, fortunately this room doesn't have the original cornice, in fact that cornice is pretty cheap and nasty so if I was pulling the ceiling down I would probably rip this off too, which starts to make me think I could just pull off the outside wall plasterboard as well and insulate then get a plasterer in to skim the whole lot, but I am a bit paranoid about insulation in old houses as I hear so many differing opinions on these forums and danger stories about dampness!

 

[OwainDIYer]

I would overboard and not pull the ceiling down.

Even if there is a cornice, in many cases this can be retained and the new plasterboard run to the edge of the cornice, or a timber strip run next to the cornice to form a neat edge to abut the plasterboard to.

If there are some shaky pieces of plaster but the lath is solid then often the plaster can be repaired by propping from underneath and pouring on plaster of paris above to stick the plaster to the laths.

(Lathes are large pieces of machinery used for turning wood. )

 

[roy c]

Rip the lot down and if you can get above it you can knock it down with a piece of 4"x2" .After you have knocked down clear away all the laths and tie them into bundles which makes it easier to get at the dusty dirty pile of mess. Make sure when you do this you wear a really good dust mask and open the windows and tape up all the doors as you will have this dust all over the house. and if possible have a water sprayer to kill the dust when you clear it up into bags and tie the bags up. I always have a supply of old sand/gravel bags I have kept over the years for putting rubbish in and then empty the bags and kept them. When you have finally got rid of all the debris then you have to "de-nail" the joists as they will be left with a lot of old rusty nail heads. You can do this by sliding your hammer along the joists knocking the heads off and pulling out the ones that don't break off. And when you have finally done all this you can do what you want with the "blank canvas" GOOD LUCK
Have noticed that it is your lounge ceiling so you wont be able to go down the 4"x2" route. So if you pull it down from below you will have to get a long crow-bar and a hard hat and an all in one suit and rubber gauntlet gloves and good eye protection and an all in one breathing mask. You can see what us professionals have to do now so there are certain jobs that are best left to the professionals(or the ones that are used to doing jobs like this} so think carefully on what route you are going to take...

 

[Kaymo]

Thanks all for the comments. As I expected might happen there are a few different opinions on what to do but I think the majority are saying to pull the old plaster down and fit plasterboard. I have been thinking myself that this might make sense and it would give me an opportunity to pull down the old cornice that a previous owner has put up and isnt even straight on the wall. It should also give me the chance to block any drafts that are coming in between the ceiling and upstairs floor which is I think the reason that I appear to lose a lot of heat upstairs.

I have all the equipment mentioned above except that I need to get a better mask. I've done similar destructive jobs before on a much smaller scale with paper dust masks and I realise that they are just not up to it.

Fortunately we have another room downstairs that we can use as a living room while all this is getting done.

My final decision is going to be whether I bite the bullet while this is all going to be a mess anyway and insulate the walls. Does anyone have any thoughts on the wisdom of this in a 100 year old house with solid exterior sandstone walls?

 

[Micilin]

Both options are fine - obviously pulling down will be messier and more time consuming as well as giving you waste to remove.

You are obviously clued up with the mask - this is among the worst jobs to do in terms of dirty old dust, and If I was doing one again (which I never intend, ever ) I would get a full face mask with battery operated filter intake.

Bear in mind that the joists will be level on top for the floorboards and uneven on the bottom ( ie the side you are tacking) - there was no need to be to level on the bottom as they were to be lathed and plastered which would make it up.

So you may need to check first how in line they are - then you have a choice of

1 fixing battens and packing them out to get a good even ceiliing,

2 just boarding to the existing and then bonding out to make it flat.

 

[Kaymo]

Thanks Micilin,
In the end I got a plasterer in yesterday to quote for the skim afterwards and he offered to also cut back, then check the integrity of the rest of the ceiling and patch with plasterboard if possible before skimming, so I took him up on it and he should be along within a few days to do the job. However, the above was all helpful so I knew what the options were before talking to him and in this old house it may not be the last time I have to deal with something like this.

Happy enough to dodge this job in the end as the plasterer is being pretty reasonable in terms of pricing and offering to do the whole job including fitting the plasterboard. Its also better if he fits the plasterboard and he is happy with that prior to him skimming.

Thanks again to all who answered.