No heat upstairs, new pump installed, Boiler moved closer...

Jfin

Bought house 2 years ago and heating has always been V-Poor.
Had a heating specilist around to find problem, he found the following issues.
1. Some rads too small.
2. Not enough rads for size of rooms.

Boiler serviced and working fine (Firebird 90) 2000 SQFT house with 11 rads.

So, Rads fitted + couple of release valves and compressor (red metal space ship thing) expansion pipe disconnected from header tank and non return release valve fitted instead.
Oh - was dual system with back boiler and seperate indoor pump that kicked in when water reached 65 degrees and pumped upstairs - Pulled out back boiler and done away with extra pump.

Swithced on system and no heat upstairs - Maybe pump is working too hard to pull water back to garage (Grundfos 25/50) (Distance from boiler to house 30 Feet distance from Boiler to hot water tank 80 feet)
New pump installed (Grundfos 25/60)

Switched on heating - no heat upstairs and water only traveling 5 feet up flow pipe going to hot water tank/upstairs rads.

Built concrete base against house and moved boiler 30 feet closer.

Switched on heating and still no heating up-stairs, Turned off all rads downstairs and heating goes upstairs! Turned flow and return 1/4 turn downstairs and heating goes to some of the rads upstairs and leaves a one barely luke warm and another warm at top and cold at bottom and cold at return pipe.

switched heating on for 3 hours last night and rads are hot but not untouchable - Have boiler set to 75(Goes 60-90) but still same problem upstairs.

Head wrecked - Please help!

Agile · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:20 am Post Subject:

Reading between the lines you seem to have had the expert in to diagnose the problems and then you did the work?

If the system is full of water ( ??? ) then it might just ned balancing.

If you have done it all properly then perhaps its time to call the expert in again?

You cannot beat a good expert!

Tony

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ARGI Registered Engineer

Jfin · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:46 am Post Subject:

Expert did the work(Friend of Family) I took the wek off to assist wit the donkey work (Digging trench for new pipe armoured cable etc..) bleeding done and done again - a lot of air in the system but minimal in rads - bad rads have no air which is strange as complete cold spots at bottom of one and other barely warm at all (Two biggest rads) poor guy has spend 7 full days on a job he thought would take 3, he's sorry he started it id say! Im trying to save his sanity by posting here, he's coming back at weekend. any suggestions as to whats happening?

Agile · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:55 am Post Subject:

It sounds as if there is not water in parts of the system.

If the expert cannot see the fault I doubt we can expect to guess.

Perhaps he is not really an expert at all? Its a very simple fault and he should find it when he returns.

I always advise not doing any work for friends except at normal rates!

Tony

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ARGI Registered Engineer

Jfin · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:09 pm Post Subject:

I hear you. However has cost me €2200 for parts and labour so far, this guy has personally fitted probably 50 complete systems in his lifetime - A plumber all his life and his dad before him (60 yrs old now) cant really go elsewhere for 2 reasons (money and respect for him) im watching him scratch his head a lot ! and really want to help him sort it out - he has drained the system 3 times and even opened some pipes to look for air locks, shouldn't the pump especially an extra powerful one pull the water back through the system? (or maybe doesn't work like that. i feel a little stuck between a rock and a hard place.

rebelbuttmunch · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:18 pm Post Subject:

Have you balanced the rads?

Jfin · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:22 pm Post Subject:

Yes we tried out a few different balancing scenarios, i found the best working mode was downstairs Flow opened by 1/4 turn + Return same - He had his usual recommendations (i think one full turn open) whats the suggestion for flow and return?

D_Hailsham · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:14 pm Post Subject:

How to balance a CH System

Jfin · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:55 pm Post Subject:

This will help me a lot - and makes perfect sense
Thanks - a lot

Jfin · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:37 pm Post Subject:

LS=lockshield Valve - When the instruction says open all lockshield valves is it both floow and return they refer to or just the flow?

rebelbuttmunch · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:44 pm Post Subject:

Await word from the resident experts but I would have though its just one as one would be enough to create a pressure differential.

Jfin · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:47 pm Post Subject:

Should they be fully open?

Jfin · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:49 pm Post Subject:

Just called 3 different (Large) Heat merchants in my area and none of them heard or sell pipe thermometers. i take it that this method isnt widely used or else plumbers just wing it until its right!

rebelbuttmunch · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:49 pm Post Subject:

I always leave one fully open and use the other one to balance. Start with them all closed and open each one 1/4 turn. Ive found that the rads further away from the pump will need more turn

kevplumb · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:54 pm Post Subject:

Quote:

Just called 3 different (Large) Heat merchants in my area and none of them heard or sell pipe thermometers. i take it that this method isnt widely used or else plumbers just wing it until its right!

yeah

heres one i winged earlier

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