towel rails on DHW ..?

alwest197 · 8 Aug 2011

My son has just had his bathrooms renovated. The new towel rails come on with the running of the taps. Basically this means that when you run a bath the towel rail heats up..very nice but is it correct. I was always taught that DHW and Heating should remain separate. Is this a new idea? and does it cause any issues.
I'm assuming that the towel rails are just thought of as an extension to the normal pipe work which delivers hot water and therefore do not collect the debris that a CH system would.

stardanny · 8 Aug 2011

What system have he got? Combi, open vent storage tank or sealed system?

Dan

alwest197 · 8 Aug 2011

He has a tank on the first floor so I suppose its an open vent type.
Al

stardanny · 8 Aug 2011

It quite normal for towelrail to come on if the hot water tank is calling for heat and the towel rail is tee off from flow pipe to cylinder.

you can check if it is working, on the programmer, turn off both DHW and HEATING. Let the system cool down to cold and open hot taps and see if the towel rail get warm or stay cold. If it stay cold, it's okay. If it get hot, then the pipework is wrong.

Dan

alwest197 · 8 Aug 2011

I think I see a problem here.

If the towel rails are also the only form of heating in the bathroom, then in cold weather and when visiting the bathroom for reasons other than a wash or bath, the room could be a bit on the cold side.

Anyway back to my query. From what you are saying it's perfectly ok to have the towel rails on the DHW system.

Al

stardanny · 8 Aug 2011

alwest197 said:
From what you are saying it's perfectly ok to have the towel rails on the DHW system.

No, what i mean is the towel rail should be on heating system pipework but tee off the flow pipe from boiler to cylinder eg tee between pump and motorised valves or tee between motorised valve (hotwater side) and connector on side of cylinder, or sometime used as bypass.

The towel rail must never be fitted on DHW pipework.

Try do what I say in earlier post.

Dan.

picasso · 8 Aug 2011

if you turn on a hot water tap in the bathroom and the towel rad gets hot straight away the rad could be made from dzr brass and be plumbed into the hot water pipes, why not get in touch with the people that renovated your bathroom and ask them.

stardanny · 8 Aug 2011

picasso said:
the rad could be made from dzr brass

really? didn't know that. I haven't seen one yet.

Dan.

alwest197 · 8 Aug 2011

Thanks for your replies..

I'll check out the make up of the towel rails and get back..maybe a while my son lives in London but wont know the answer so he'll have to ask the guy who fitted it.

Thanks again

roguetrader · 8 Aug 2011

we do this often and use stainless steel towel rails, usually with a secondary pump.

alwest197 · 9 Aug 2011

Yep. It appears perfectly ok to do this. As I mentioned its just treated as an extenstion to the pipe work which supplies the hot water.

Thanks for all your replies.

Onetap · 9 Aug 2011

alwest197 said:
Yep. It appears perfectly ok to do this.

No, it is not. It contravenes the Water Regulations which require DHW pipework to be insulated.

See Water Regulations G18.7. "All water fittings forming part of a primary or secondary hot water circulation system ........should be thermally insulated in accordance with BS 5422."

See also Schedule 2, 2.(1). "no material or substance... which causes or is likely to cause contamination shall be used in the construction, repair, renewal or replacement of any water fitting which conveys or receives water supplied for domestic or food production purposes".

Any water fitting used on a domestic potable water system, including DHW, should be WRAS approved. Is the towel rail WRAS approved? I'd suspect that it is not.

Do try and get yourself a clue; there is inane twaddle posted on here occasionally. Go and have a Google for some keywords, e.g., legionella, stagnant, tepid, bacillus, proliferation, L8 or infection.

There were such copper pipe coils, providing space heating in bathrooms from the pumped secondary DHWS system, installed in NHS hospitals; the NHS were ripping them at the time that I was working for them, shortly after legionella was discovered. That was about 1984.

Onetap · 9 Aug 2011

roguetrader said:
we do this often and use stainless steel towel rails, usually with a secondary pump.

Hurrah for you. The name says it all. Fool.

picasso · 9 Aug 2011

somebody should contact nu-heat and tell them that their systems are contravening the regs.

http://www.towelrails.co.uk/install.html

not disputing what your saying onetap but its seems surprising that a company like nu-heat wouldent research a product before bringing it on the market.

Onetap · 9 Aug 2011

picasso said:
not disputing what your saying onetap but its seems surprising that a company like nu-heat wouldent research a product before bringing it on the market.

Why doesn't it surprise me?

You can work out what the company is like by answering the following questions;

Is the domestic HW a potable water system?
Should the towel rail be WRAS approved if it is to be connected to the DHW system?
Is the towel rail WRAS approved?

picasso said:
somebody should contact nu-heat and tell them that their systems are contravening the regs.

The towel rail doesn't contravene the Water Regulations; a plumber connecting it to a DHW system would, IMHO.

Anyone that thinks otherwise can feel free to correct me; I'm sitting by the PC with a pint waiting to absorb your wisdom, every day is a schoolday here.

I may go looting later though.

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towel rails on DHW ..?

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