Main earth bonding (lack of)

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I've realised that we have no earth bonding to the gas, and probably also to the water. The gas meter is only a metre or so from the incoming cable with sheath earth.

It seems to be reasonably simple to fix but I have a few q's before I go charging in...:

Electric and gas meters are NOT in a Special Location nor are they in a Kitchen. (In a large walk-in cupboard off the kitchen - 4m and a closing door away from the kitchen sink)

(1) (First hurdle) Installing main supplementary earth bonding is not notifiable - Correct?

(2) As there's no MET, the existing earthing conductor from the incoming sheath to the CU will have to be split to insert the the MET terminal. As this now affecting the main earth not just the supplementary does that invalidate (1) above (making it now notifiable) ?

There is space to locate a metal earth terminal block alongside the meter, so then I would need to wire in the existing conductor from the sheath then the conductor from the CU. Then add a conductor to the output (not input) side of the gas before any junctions (using labelled earthing clamp). I need to measure the size of the existing cable, but assuming for the moment it's 16mm2 then I'd use 10mm2 for the equip. to the gas ?

(3) Above okay / correct?

(4) Is it fairly likely I'm going to find the earthing conductor is <16mm2? [I'm not at home at the moment to be able to measure it - I also could do with measuring the phase conductors as IIRC earthing conductor shoudl be same size as phase up to 16mm2 (except for real big tails which I'm certain mine aren't)]

Water is plastic (MDPE?) to the stopcock under the front door. Then a few inches of copper then plastic again. This is clearly a recent-ish change and I think the downstairs stays in plastic but it joints to copper as it goes upstairs to the bathrooms/DHW etc,. Fortunately this is right near the electric & gas meters described above.

Whilst there is no point bonding the plastic pipe:
(5) Should the copper cold be bonded soon after the plastic/copper join? That would make sense as most of the pipework on the upper floors is copper so bonding here would help bond throughout.

(6) Should the few inches of copper after the stopcock be bonded (it is beneath a relatively easily removable floorboard, so accessible but not without deliberate access, if you see what I mean)

Bonding of (5) and (6) if required would be done the same as the bonding to the gas.

Thanks folks....

Before people ask the obvious question ("why not get someone in"). I intend to have the CU upgraded later this year, so full PIR will presuambly be done at the start. Also, with a new boiler deperately needed, any electrical work including remedial found by a PIR needs to be delayed a bit. Meanwhile where there are things that need to be done and that I can do safely and better still it's not notifiable then any money I save I can spend later on the CU.
 
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jpdw said:
(1) (First hurdle) Installing main supplementary earth bonding is not notifiable - Correct?
Yes.

(2) As there's no MET, the existing earthing conductor from the incoming sheath to the CU will have to be split to insert the the MET terminal. As this now affecting the main earth not just the supplementary does that invalidate (1) above (making it now notifiable) ?
No.

There is space to locate a metal earth terminal block alongside the meter, so then I would need to wire in the existing conductor from the sheath then the conductor from the CU. Then add a conductor to the output (not input) side of the gas before any junctions (using labelled earthing clamp). I need to measure the size of the existing cable, but assuming for the moment it's 16mm2 then I'd use 10mm2 for the equip. to the gas ?
Yes.

(3) Above okay / correct?
Yes.

(4) Is it fairly likely I'm going to find the earthing conductor is <16mm2?
No.

Water is plastic (MDPE?) to the stopcock under the front door.
If blue pipe then it's MDPE; if black then probably Alkathene.

(5) Should the copper cold be bonded soon after the plastic/copper join?
Yes. Within 600mm.

(6) Should the few inches of copper after the stopcock be bonded (it is beneath a relatively easily removable floorboard, so accessible but not without deliberate access, if you see what I mean)
Not quite. I admit to being confused now. Is your stopcock not at the join from MDPE (or Alkathene) to copper? :confused:
 
Thanks Softus for the reply.

Regarding the water:
(6) Should the few inches of copper after the stopcock be bonded (it is beneath a relatively easily removable floorboard, so accessible but not without deliberate access, if you see what I mean)
Not quite. I admit to being confused now. Is your stopcock not at the join from MDPE (or Alkathene) to copper? :confused:

What I was trying to describe is that the service pipe comes in (plastic) to beneath the front door. Then the stopcock, (from now we on we are on my side of it). Then a few inches of copper, then into plastic and disappears beyond the view I get when I pull up the floorboard cut to give access to the stop cock. At some (hidden) point it t's off going to the kitchen (not sure what that is in copper or not) and the other tee to upstairs, which is visible and plastic for the first half then joints to copper for the remainder. My assumption is that during a certain period of time or for a particular set of changes the plumber employed for that/those jobs used plastic whereever pipework was changed instead of coppper. Bit messy but figure getting some of it bonded is a start & better than the current situation where none of it appears to be bonded.

That said, your comment about being confused now makes me doubt myself - I took a very very bad picture of the stopcock a few days ago, and now you have me doubting if I'm looking at plastic or dull copper through the gloom of the bad picture. Something for me to check when I get back home later in the week.

Meanwhile, thanks for the input WRT the rest of it.

jpdw
 
Electric and gas meters are NOT in a Special Location nor are they in a Kitchen. (In a large walk-in cupboard off the kitchen - 4m and a closing door away from the kitchen sink)

(1) (First hurdle) Installing main supplementary earth bonding is not notifiable - Correct?
Correct. And it wouldn't matter if the meters were in the kitchen - 1(e) of Schedule 2B comes before 2(a).

(BTW - bonding can be main, or supplementary, not both ;) )

(2) As there's no MET, the existing earthing conductor from the incoming sheath to the CU will have to be split to insert the the MET terminal. As this now affecting the main earth not just the supplementary does that invalidate (1) above (making it now notifiable) ?
It comes under 1(e) - inserting an external MET is a reasonable part of installing main bonding.

But does your CU not have terminals for bonding cables?

There is space to locate a metal earth terminal block alongside the meter, so then I would need to wire in the existing conductor from the sheath then the conductor from the CU. Then add a conductor to the output (not input) side of the gas before any junctions (using labelled earthing clamp). I need to measure the size of the existing cable, but assuming for the moment it's 16mm2 then I'd use 10mm2 for the equip. to the gas ?

(3) Above okay / correct?
Yup.

(4) Is it fairly likely I'm going to find the earthing conductor is <16mm2? [I'm not at home at the moment to be able to measure it - I also could do with measuring the phase conductors as IIRC earthing conductor shoudl be same size as phase up to 16mm2 (except for real big tails which I'm certain mine aren't)]
Not much you can do about that.

Whilst there is no point bonding the plastic pipe:
(5) Should the copper cold be bonded soon after the plastic/copper join? That would make sense as most of the pipework on the upper floors is copper so bonding here would help bond throughout.

(6) Should the few inches of copper after the stopcock be bonded (it is beneath a relatively easily removable floorboard, so accessible but not without deliberate access, if you see what I mean)
As pointless as it is, the regs say that the short bit of copper pipe needs to be main bonded, not the pipework upstairs, and that does not count as an extraneous-conductive-part, and therefore needs no supplementary equipotential bonding either.
 
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Uncanny. It's as if you didn't read my post at all.
 
Uncanny. It's as if you didn't read my post at all.
Who ? Me ? no !

I assume you mean b-a-s . If you do mean me, I did read it, honest.

(2) As there's no MET, the existing earthing conductor from the incoming sheath to the CU will have to be split to insert the the MET terminal. As this now affecting the main earth not just the supplementary does that invalidate (1) above (making it now notifiable) ?
It comes under 1(e) - inserting an external MET is a reasonable part of installing main bonding.

But does your CU not have terminals for bonding cables?

I've not had the lid off but I sure of the innards. The CU is a 6-way wylex re-wirable but for only 6 ways it has many many cables going in (more 'tree' than 'ring') so I would expect it to be congested. If it's 'allowed', an external terminal block would be easier.

(4) Is it fairly likely I'm going to find the earthing conductor is <16mm2? [I'm not at home at the moment to be able to measure it - I also could do with measuring the phase conductors as IIRC earthing conductor shoudl be same size as phase up to 16mm2 (except for real big tails which I'm certain mine aren't)]
Not much you can do about that.

I guess the choice would be
(a) leave it undersized (sounds like a bad idea to me) or
(b) replace with new to match recent sizes (sounds better idea)

Obviously (a) is easier but no real aversion to (b) if that's better/safe etc,.

I was just wondering if in peoples experience main earth conductors are often undersized compared to current regulations (I'm assuming this is an area of regs that have changed over the recent years and at a guess my current install dates from pre 2000, probably pre 1990.)

I'll soon be able to check when I get back home....

Whilst there is no point bonding the plastic pipe:
(6) Should the few inches of copper after the stopcock be bonded (it is beneath a relatively easily removable floorboard, so accessible but not without deliberate access, if you see what I mean)
As pointless as it is, the regs say that the short bit of copper pipe needs to be main bonded, not the pipework upstairs, and that does not count as an extraneous-conductive-part, and therefore needs no supplementary equipotential bonding either.
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I had a feeling I'd read something (probably here) suggesting what you say. As a I posted in reply to Softus, I'm doubting the cold supply connections and need to check. It's in the void under my suspended floor and not that far from the meter so no real additional effort to do.
 
I guess the choice would be
(a) leave it undersized (sounds like a bad idea to me) or
(b) replace with new to match recent sizes (sounds better idea)
You can't replace the main earth cable - at least not the length between the sheath and the MET.
 
That said, your comment about being confused now makes me doubt myself - I took a very very bad picture of the stopcock a few days ago, and now you have me doubting if I'm looking at plastic or dull copper through the gloom of the bad picture. Something for me to check when I get back home later in the week.

Right... Back home now and I've checked the incoming water pipe and doh it's metal (copper not lead) not plastic ....! At some point it joints to plastic then back to copper upstairs.

So I guess as well as the 10mm2 to the gas, I need to run a 10mm2 to "our side" of the stopcock. Approx 4 or 5 metres - easy run in the floor void. Is the distance a problem?
 
I guess the choice would be
(a) leave it undersized (sounds like a bad idea to me) or
(b) replace with new to match recent sizes (sounds better idea)
You can't replace the main earth cable - at least not the length between the sheath and the MET.

Can't (physically) or mustn't (regulations, ownership etc) ?

The reason I ask is because I read somewhere the earth conductor is often soldered/welded to the outer sheath. Whereas mine isn't soldered. Dont get me wrong - I'm asking to better understand -- I'm more than happy to leave the existing conductor in place ... less to do !
 
You shouldn't make connections to the cable sheath yourself... its not yours to connect to, and if you **** up, it could go bang!

How is it connected to the sheath? (*hopes the answer isn't BS951 clamp*)

Anyhow, best provide an MET, connect the existing earth to it, and ask teh DNO if they'd like to upgrade it
 
You shouldn't make connections to the cable sheath yourself... its not yours to connect to, and if you **** up, it could go bang!

How is it connected to the sheath? (*hopes the answer isn't BS951 clamp*)

It is a clamp but it doesn't look exactly like the usual type I've seen under sinks / bathroom pipes etc:
254535472_8Av6k-M-1.jpg

I guess this is either a clamp type used by the dno or (and I hope not) a bad diy job from years back
 

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