Wall Stability

Yorky1 · 15 Apr 2008

There is a brick wall which forms the bellmouth to the estate where I live which consists of a curved wall and a pillar at each end.

One of the neighbours pointed out that the wall has not been 'built in' to the pillars - this has become evident due to contraction of the mortar which has reveale a gap all the way down.

My garden adjoins this wall and I'm concerned about the structural safety of it in the event of an impact. Before I get onto the builder, is this poor building practice and is in indeed unsafe?

Shytalkz · 15 Apr 2008

Although what you are describing appears to be a vertical joint (possible expansion joint?), it is unlikely (but not impossible) that the two elements are not tied together with ties, which obviously you won't see as they are buried within the wall thickness.

Is there some visible evidence of this wall being structurally unsound, beyond the fact that there appears to be a vertical joint?

^woody^ · 15 Apr 2008

A curved wall is not going anywhere even if hit (its actually stronger than a straight wall tied in) and if the piers are those massively wide things fashionable on the estates, then that is not going anywhere either

Shytalkz · 15 Apr 2008

And now explain to the OP just why a curved or crinkle-crankle wall is stronger than a straight one of the same dimensions.

You are correct, just wondered if you knew why...

Yorky1 · 15 Apr 2008

Thank you for your replies. I've taken some photographs of the wall. The pillars are 1.22m high and 0.67m x 0.67m and the wall is 1.14m high x 3.3m wide.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/Kilnadrain/P1030093.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/Kilnadrain/P1030091.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/Kilnadrain/P1030090.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/Kilnadrain/P1030089.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/Kilnadrain/P1030088.jpg

With it being at the estate entrance and my garden being on the other side, my main concerns are about it toppling over and/or not withstanding the impact of a motor vehicle.

^woody^ · 15 Apr 2008

I haven't got a clue, but I do recall an afternoon in my structures lessons - something to do with imagining an archway but horizontal and compression, transfer of loads, being stonger under load etc etc. No need to bore you with it

^woody^ · 15 Apr 2008

Yorky1 said:
my main concerns are about it toppling over and/or not withstanding the impact of a motor vehicle.

I don't think Ladbrooks with even give you any odds on that happening.

I'd be more worried about the thorns on that rose bush

Shytalkz · 15 Apr 2008

Well, it doesn't look tied in and the pier has clearly rotated away from the wall, but it's not dangerous: that is one mofo of a pier! Be interesting to see why it is moving, or as moved, though; would guess its foundation is on soft ground.

It shouldn't have moved at all, the wall should be tied to the pier, so you might want to take it up with the builder, as there's no guarantee that that is all the movement that is going to occur (and it won't be covered by your insurance, either). Have you got NHBC cover or similar? How old is the house?

Shytalkz · 15 Apr 2008

^woody^ said:
I haven't got a clue, but I do recall an afternoon in my structures lessons - something to do with imagining an archway but horizontal and compression, transfer of loads, being stonger under load etc etc. No need to bore you with it

Lol, you bloody chancer

. An afternoon? Your entire structures lessons were an afternoon. Tops!

Parallel axis theorem ol' boy: it's to do with the respective inertias (resistance to rotation about the axis of mass of a body in that direction in space): looking on plan, a crinkle-crankle or circular wall has a greater inertia than a straight wall of equal thickness, by virtue of their respective extremities being further away from their neutral axes of the whole than that of a straight one.

For rectangles, I = bd^3/12 + AH^2 for each element of the body. That's why a ruler is easy to bend when held flat, not so easy when you turn it on edge.

And that is why SEs should deal with structural matters, not surveyors

^woody^ · 15 Apr 2008

Was that an astronomy lesson or what?

<feels light-headed>

The thing is, in todays busy life, no one wants to know about the Parallax View (good film though) or gravitational inertia of the moon - as in this instance they just want an answer short and simple. BAM!

Thats why a surveyor should deal with structural matters (we're cheaper) lol

PS - I thought that's what I said in layman's terms though?

Shytalkz · 15 Apr 2008

If that's what you thought you said, then there's no hope

Yes, you lot generally are cheaper. For a reason, arf arf!

Yorky1 · 15 Apr 2008

Any chance of getting back on topic?

Shytalkz · 15 Apr 2008

What's left to say?

Yorky1 · 15 Apr 2008

Is it safe?

Shytalkz · 15 Apr 2008

A few posts up said:
Well, it doesn't look tied in and the pier has clearly rotated away from the wall, but it's not dangerous...

Unequivocal enough?

And in the same post above said:
Have you got NHBC cover or similar? How old is the house?

And...?

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Wall Stability

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