To wash or not to wash - previously emulsion painted ceiling

The advice given on preparation of walls & ceilings on the expert advice section on this site says you should wash down with sugar soap and water. However, my decorator says this just livens up the emulsion, by which he means softens it up, and moves around the dirt. We recently moved into a house which we now discover had not been decorated for very many years and all the paintwork is absolutely filthy. He insists it is better not to wash it down and illustrated this by pushing a rather dirty sponge with only cold water on it over a section of the ceiling. He has been decorating for over 20 yrs and thinks he knows best. When I did my own decorating, I always washed everything down with sugar soap first. Who is right about this?

He has got a slight point..its te same principal as why outsides were rarely washed down before painting and before power washers came along.

And...if the walls are contract emulsion then it could cause problems because it could indeed de-stabilise it as he says.

But..if they are ordinary vinyl emulsion then hes wrong..if its a litle bit of rubbed in grime the it wont hurst to over paint the walls...if its dirt, mould, nicotine etc then it should be washed down...watch, used reasonably, wont affect vinyl matt emulsion that much.

It was a pleasure answering that...

Thanks for reply, Zampa. Is contract emulsion the same as trade emulsion? All the emulsions I have used have been completely washable. Do the "professionals" use an inferior product then?

I don't follow what you mean about the outsides, unless you mean the principle is laziness. If you paint over mucky gloss, it will soon peel off. I'm not impressed with his preparation. Not a patch on my own work but I physically can't do it any more.

The whole 'trade' contract' thing is a bit of a funny one with a lot of us using our own terminology..

Heres I i think it is..

Trade...ok there a difference between 'trade' and retail paint paint companies like dulux and crown make both..trade is aimed at the trade..its thicker and covers better..retial smells nicer and flows easily..but in order for the paint do have those qualities they have to take something out of the tin if you like..and its the pigment.....its for for DIY'ers..pro decorators dont need those qualities..we need paints that we know will cover.

As far as I know Leyland only make one type..Johnstones, I think, dont a couple of 'retail' paints...but mostly trade

'Contract matt'...is a term a lot of people use for non vinyl matt emulsion

'Trade' matt ..hmmm..well as far as I know non of the major paint companies called there basic non vinyl matt emulsion 'trade matt'..dulux is called supermatt, crown is covermatt..Leyland is Leytex and Johnstones is Jonmat.

Ive seen paint called trade matt in shps like hypervalue and aldis etc...warehouse clearence shops..its just a name, it looks impressive..but believe me..it aint!

So..shoet answer to your question...no...the trade use far superior paint, well, they should do if they have any sense, because we all know retail paint might let us down.

I had to paint a coving in an old ladies house once..the coving was olive green!..4 coats of her Aldis paint later..it was still olive green!...two coats of her friend up the roads Great Mills own brand later...it was still olive green..one more coat of my dulux supermatt..and it was eventually white!

Regard the washing down...you was talking about washing down emulsion..same principle with masonry paint..unless its filty and needs a pressure wash....but now you mention gloss...and your right, it should always be washed down..unlike matt its easy to wash and theres no excuse not to.

Hope that helps a bit..

Thanks, Zampa, for that booklet. I find it extraordinary that the manufacturers should make this distinction. DIYers also want something that covers well, but we also want an emulsion that is washable. It might suit the decorator to be able to get away with fewer coats but if it isn't washable it's not much good. One needs to be able to clean off scuff marks or finger marks. Whether it smells nicer is irrelevant since the customer has to live with the smell whether he is applying it personally or not.

Not really..you missed my point there..the qualities of the paints are the same..trade paint is just as washable and wipeable as retail..and theres a broader range of specialist trade paints that are even more so..

Unless a matt emulsion paint says 'vinyl matt' then you should assume it isnt

Non vinyl matt allows newly plastered walls to breath..the technical term in water vapour permiable..as in they let water pass through them, whereas vinyl matt can in theory seal moisture in a wall and this can cause the paint film to bubble blister and peel..(although its rare) but to be on the safe side I wouild use non vinyl (contract) matt og new deep bare plaster just in case

Its the same principle when using vinyl silk, soft sheen or water based eggshell on new plaster..admittedly it rarely happens but it if did using something that sealed the moisture in would be the cause.

Our deal with the decorator is that we pay for the materials at cost. He claims he gets a discount. We've just had the bill from him for the Weathershield smooth masonry paint which is £28.61 for a 5 litre tin. I could buy non-trade Weathershield smooth masonry from the local hardware shop for £18.49 for 5 litres. We need a heck of a lot of tins and he isn't thinning the paint at all (painting straight from the tin). He got through 2 tins today doing the first coat on less than half the house. Why is the trade version so much more expensive and what is the benefit of his using that rather than the cheaper version?

Is hes pliolite based...all seasons?

If it isnt then if it needs two coats anyway there is no advantage..if he isnt buying his paint from a dulux trade centre (and spends less than 6 grand a year) he is probably being ripped off.

I closed my account this year for that reason..I was pating more on account than what it was advertised for on the shelf!

They tried to be clever and alienated small painters..and have come unstuck because decorators have deserted them in their droves.

Don't understand your first sentence and question. It's Dulux Weathershield Trade Masonry Paint and he buys it from a Dulux Decorator Centre. It says on the tin that it needs 2 coats. Have just noticed that it's 28.61 for 5 litres PLUS VAT which makes it 33.62. Cripes!

Theres an resin based version can weathershield all seasons..and thats normally around that price

Its shower proff in 15 minutes and given the current weather I wouldnt use anything esle on an outside.

If he is paying that much he is being ripped off..simple as.

Except that since we are reimbursing him at cost, it's we who are being ripped off. Can't see anything on the Dulux products list which calls itself "all seasons". Is that another make?

Here you go..

http://www.icipaints.co.uk/products/info/dulux_trade_weathershield_all_seasons_masonry_paint.jsp

Does this guy actually have any accounts with paint companies..as a pro decorator he should have..most do.

maybe he gets a trade discount as a cash rebate in the back pocket?