Fix-its

dingbat · 31 Oct 2004

There have been so many questions asked about extending wiring, adapting existing circuits for new purposes, looking for ways around regulations, re-using old equipment and generally resisting facing up to reality that I sometimes wonder how many DIY-ers understand that electricity can kill.

If your car tyres are bald do you try and paint on a bit of rubber to make do? If your brakes fail do you just carry on, hoping that you'll never have to do an emergency stop? If you break a leg would you just stick a plaster on it and say it'll do? When your daughter needs an operation do you get quotes from a surgeon, a dentist and a chippie and accept the cheapest?

No? So why, when knowledgeable people tell you you need to renew or upgrade cable, install new switchgear, upgrade earthing and bonding, etc, do so many people get so upset about it all and ignore or argue with that advice? The wiring regulations and codes of practice are there for a reason and real electricians are bound to follow them - so how come non-electricians think they can get away with sub-standard practices?

Discuss...

breezer · 31 Oct 2004

its because they think, "i can do that" i don't need an electrician, i have seen all the stuff at q & b / basehome.

they do not realise / apreciate that the sheds supply poorer quality kit which wont last, and also quite often the wrong advice (but so long as they have one they will sell it to you)

In general its the same old story (most of the time) MONEY

ban-all-sheds · 31 Oct 2004

I wonder if it is partly because, in any field whatsoever, those who know, or claim to know, more about the subject habitually lie to the general public?

We've created a culture of disbelief, and the immediate reaction to being told anything is to doubt the trustworthiness and motives of the person doing the telling....

But you're right - the Retail Park Homes For The Bewildered don't help any...

dingbat · 31 Oct 2004

Good point Ban. But is it really a part of this ridiculous 'climate of fear' that seems to have sprung up - telly programmes like House of Horrors and Rogue Traders do little to help. (Taking it further, must any single man these days automatically be viewed as a potential rapist/paedophile until proven innocent?)

Tradesmen used to be trusted as honest experts in their field and I believe the vast majority still are, but I guess there's no entertainment value in reporting harmless truths.

plugwash · 31 Oct 2004

breezer said:
they do not realise / apreciate that the sheds supply poorer quality kit which wont last

it seems to depend a lot on the kit in question the kit sold by sheds is sometimes the exact same stuff that some tradesmen use (for instance the CU range sold in wikes is repackaged GET)

on the other hand the ELV lighting sets sold by sheds are well known for being ****

breezer · 31 Oct 2004

fair cooment, but i was thinking more along the lines of switches, sockets

ban-all-sheds · 31 Oct 2004

B&Q sell MK...

breezer · 31 Oct 2004

ban-all-sheds said:
B&Q sell MK...

indeed they do, but compared to "own brand" people will opt for the cheaper

plugwash · 31 Oct 2004

some sparks will do the same with whatever cheap brand thier wholesaler sells

truth is that its pretty hard to produce a really bad socket or lightswitch while still staying within the british standards

while the sheds do sell some real **** (ELV lighting being one of the best known catagorys) thier own brand switches and sockets have always seemed fine to me

ban-all-sheds · 31 Oct 2004

plugwash said:
while the sheds do sell some real **** (ELV lighting being one of the best known catagorys)

Interesting, isn't it, that Part P will make all ELV lighting, anywhere in the house, apart from pre-assembled sets, a "special installation", and therefore come Jan 05, the only stuff that JP will be allowed to install himself will be these kits.

plugwash · 1 Nov 2004

from what i gather a lot of the sheds have stopped selling them moving over to selling mains holgens instead

i think the blunt fact is that voltage conversion to elv at that kind of power is pricey to do right and the sheds have found the stuff that was cheap enough to sell well to be a returns liability

Damocles · 1 Nov 2004

Well now, got some lovely 40 year old MK light switches here. Not at all sure that a 'new equipment' own brand switch from a shed would last longer than one of the existing ones.

Have you never heard of re-treaded tyres? Companies buy up old, bald ones and stick on new tread. Lots of people use them, and they work. Reason for doing this is to save cost.........and also reduce the mountain of old tyres needlessly thrown away.

Did no one tell you that recycling is a GOOD THING? No reason for it to be unsafe if it is done properly.

Wiring regulations contain best practice. If the system has three ways designed into it to stop you getting a shock, then that is very nice. But it would only need one of those three to operate to save you. So it is not true that all regulations are equal. Some are more important than others. Just because a house was wired to old regs does not mean it is unsafe. Merely less safe. In fact perhaps only very slightly less safe, and not worth the cost of re-doing it.

dingbat · 1 Nov 2004

Hmm, Dam... missing the point a little?

I wasn't talking about people understanding the issues and taking calculated risks. It's the ones who don't understand what they are doing, ignore all advice and simply go for the cheapest option, no matter how misguided/stupid/deadly it may turn out to be.

Palmerston5 · 1 Nov 2004

As a non-electrician I'll tell you one reason why some people try to do it themselves...

I live in London and although you'd think there'd be lots of them its very hard to pin down an electrician here (who's registered). They are all too busy or not interested in domestic work, or don't turn up for an appointment or don't call you back when they say they will...and in the end you just get fed up of flicking through the yellow pages and start thinking about whether you could just do it yourself.

Then the one person who does turn up (this is fiction, as nobody did) shakes his head and says (without really having looked at anything) that you need a complete rewire. It may be true, but you just have an inkling that it may not be.

As far as I'm concerned it's not the cost that's the problem - it's finding a reliable and reputable electrician who'll agree to come and do the work!

dingbat · 1 Nov 2004

Sadly, Palmerston, I hear this all the time, but whenever I ask for examples I'm told it didn't happen to them, but a friend of a friend. I've only ever had one tradesman not turn up to an appointment, ever, in my life... and all bar one have quoted for the work I asked for and offered advice about things I might not have known about (the one that didn't never got around to it, but I later learned he had a reputation for being forgetful - and an equal reputation for top quality work!). I don't recall ever being talked into something I didn't need.

In my own business dealings I always turn up and always on time (or else I call and rearrange in advance). I take the time to explain if the job is more than the client realised, I stick to my quotes except where further investigation reveals real problems, in which case extra work is only undertaken after negotiating a new job. I won't do substandard work or take short cuts at the client's request, as I always work to regulations and nobody has ever challenged me on that.

I feel sorry for people who have genuinely experienced difficulties, but I wonder how much of what we hear is apocryphal (or possibly based on London tradesmen)?

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Fix-its

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