Santon Solar Cylinder Internal Coil Arrangement

stevebamford · 26 Jan 2009

Hi All,

We have a a santon solar unvented cylinder and I noticed that the flow/return from the boiler use the upper connections.

There are blanked off solar flow/return connections at the bottom of the tank (we're not using solar yet but bought the tank for future addon)

The question is ... is it only the top of the tank that gets heated by the boiler coil ? or do both coils wind up and down inside the tank so the whole volume will be heated ?

Mainly out of interest but I did have a vague thought that both coils could be connected in series ?

Cheers all

Steve

gas4you · 26 Jan 2009

Both coils are totally seperate from each other.

cider · 26 Jan 2009

both coils could be connected in series giving the advantage of decreased re heat time, but not extra hotwater as the thermostat controlling the boiler is relatively high in the tank.

BigBurner · 27 Jan 2009

cider said:
both coils could be connected in series giving the advantage of decreased re heat time, but not extra hotwater as the thermostat controlling the boiler is relatively high in the tank.

It will give extra hot water if both coils are being used in series.

It will give even more, a full cylinder full, if they are connected in reverse - flow in the bottom on the bottom coil, return back to boiler out of the top of the top coil.

When solar is connected then the top coil can be connected only to the boiler, and the bottom to the solar panel.

gas4you · 27 Jan 2009

BigBurner said:
It will give extra hot water if both coils are being used in series.

It will give even more, a full cylinder full, if they are connected in reverse - flow in the bottom on the bottom coil, return back to boiler out of the top of the top coil.

As soon as you are back from being temporarily banned, you straight away give advice which is AGAINST maufacturers instructions

Looking forward to your next ban BB?

stevebamford · 27 Jan 2009

Thanks chaps - couple of more questions if you don't mind ...

1) is it ok to connect the 2 coils in series as long as they are not reverse connected (seems to be different answers on this one)

2) Is it really a top coil and a bottom coil situation inside the tank - or does the boiler coil reach down to the bottom of the tank inside ? Just wondering as presumably if the boiler coil is limited to the top 3rd of the tank then the bottom bit wouldn't get heated ???

CHeers

Steve

BigBurner · 27 Jan 2009

stevebamford said:
Thanks chaps - couple of more questions if you don't mind ...

1) is it ok to connect the 2 coils in series as long as they are not reverse connected (seems to be different answers on this one)

2) Is it really a top coil and a bottom coil situation inside the tank - or does the boiler coil reach down to the bottom of the tank inside ? Just wondering as presumably if the boiler coil is limited to the top 3rd of the tank then the bottom bit wouldn't get heated ???

CHeers

Steve

You can connect in series and in reverse too. The cylinder is designed for high temperature solar applications. Take no notice of fools who say otherwise. The cyl' stat cuts out the boiler when up to temperature.

You would have been better buying heat bank/thermal store which are superior for these applications. Maybe too late now.

Also try the http://www.greenbuilding.co.uk forum and the Navitron forum. They have people there who do this all the time. This forum is just mainly jobbing plumbers who have little to no knowledge of these sorts of applications.

If the cylinder is a two coil design, then only the top section is heated via the boiler. The bottom section is for solar heated water only - acting as a pre-heat. The cold water enters the bottom it will push the warmer water up into the top section as water is being drawn off. If the solar heated water is hotter than the boiler heated water it will rise to the top and heat all of the cylinder, if not it acts as pre-heated water.

When using solar panels I would have a blending valve on the DHW draw-off. Also a high limit stat of say 90C, so that if the panels can deliver very hot solar heated free hot water then take all you can and store it.

gas4you · 27 Jan 2009

BigBurner said:
gas4you said:

BigBurner said:

It will give extra hot water if both coils are being used in series.

It will give even more, a full cylinder full, if they are connected in reverse - flow in the bottom on the bottom coil, return back to boiler out of the top of the top coil.

Click to expand...

As soon as you are back from being temporarily banned, you straight away give advice which is AGAINST maufacturers instructions

Looking forward to your next ban BB?

Click to expand...

You are an idiot.

At least I am qualified, competent and have fitted loads of boilers and un-vented HW cylinders, including solar

How many have you fitted BB aka water systems & Dr Drivel

Big Burner has only just been allowed back onto the forum after being temporarily banned for giving mis-information and being dangerous in his advice as well.

In this post he is somewhat misleading you by giving advice contrary to the manufacturers testing and installation instructions.

If you want to take the advice of someone who is incompetent, unqualified and has never fitted a boiler or unvented cylinder in his life, then go ahead.

All his information is obtained from brochures and the internet, where in both mediums, manufacturers are always going to paint their products in a good light. Just search his previous, outrageous posts on here, then see for yourself. The only posters that appear to agree with him are those that are him using a different 'alias' and talking to himself

You are still dangerous BB and still the laughing stock of this forum

stevebamford · 27 Jan 2009

stevebamford said:
Thanks chaps - couple of more questions if you don't mind ...

1) is it ok to connect the 2 coils in series as long as they are not reverse connected (seems to be different answers on this one)

2) Is it really a top coil and a bottom coil situation inside the tank - or does the boiler coil reach down to the bottom of the tank inside ? Just wondering as presumably if the boiler coil is limited to the top 3rd of the tank then the bottom bit wouldn't get heated ???

CHeers

Steve

If I could call a time-out for a sec - any views on the above ?

gremlin16 · 27 Jan 2009

1) is it ok to connect the 2 coils in series as long as they are not reverse connected (seems to be different answers on this one)

Ask the cylinder manufacturer.

2) Is it really a top coil and a bottom coil situation inside the tank - or does the boiler coil reach down to the bottom of the tank inside

Check on the manufacturers web site. http://www.santon.co.uk/santon/santon.nsf

But for your safety don't take the advice of the forum troll, namely Bigburner.

gas4you · 27 Jan 2009

BigBurner said:
Stick to changing bathrooms.

BigBurner said:
You only have half a clue at best. And you are from Norwich too.

Is the best your aged mind can keep coming up with.

You are a feeble forum laughing stock

Biggles.. · 27 Jan 2009

From meomory cylinder tappings are side by side for flow and return on the santons unlike the aurostor which Dave has worked with(one above the other) so flow and return postions are irrelevant.

Unitil solar is used i would also put flow into the bottom and return out of the top but link both coils to act as one.

Flow and return connections to cylinders alters as to whch part of the country your in and how taught.I was taught flow in the bottom retun out the top to ensure a max heat transfer troughout the cylinders contents.

gas4you · 27 Jan 2009

You sad forum laughing stock

How many times have you been banned?

How many times have I been banned? = 0

Says it all you senile old fool

ajstoneservices · 27 Jan 2009

stevebamford said:
Hi All,

We have a a santon solar unvented cylinder and I noticed that the flow/return from the boiler use the upper connections.

There are blanked off solar flow/return connections at the bottom of the tank (we're not using solar yet but bought the tank for future addon)

The question is ... is it only the top of the tank that gets heated by the boiler coil ? or do both coils wind up and down inside the tank so the whole volume will be heated ?

Mainly out of interest but I did have a vague thought that both coils could be connected in series ?

Cheers all

Steve

If the solar cylinder has been sized correctly then there is little benefit to be had from using both coils as the water heated by the top boiler coil should be enough to meet your needs. Solar cylinders are sized to provide larger amounts of stored "solar heated" water to lessen the need for the boiler in the summer months.

The Santon's like many other Unvented's use a coil within coil HE they do not usually extend down to bottom of the cylinder.

The posts on the Navitron forum are largely from those diying their own systems, many of them very good, while some like Water Systems "Bronze Pump" posting show how little they really know.

cider · 27 Jan 2009

Holy cow a guy posts a question and gets a reasonable answer and then all hell lets loose

As i said you will not get any more hot water then the level of the thermostat even if the coil below is heating due to stratification.

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Santon Solar Cylinder Internal Coil Arrangement

BigBurner

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