Danesmoor oil fired lockout/ignition failure

Rodders1 · 22 Feb 2010

I am having lots of problems with my Utility 15/19 unit here in rural France.It has an eletro oil B9B burner and I nave fitted the correct nozzle to suit the 35 sec Gas Oil out here. It is about 6 years old but used only for the last 3. When running it burns well and the emissions are clean.
However for the last 2 winters it has kept locking out on intermittent occassions almost every day.
Having read avidly your posts I fitted last week new danfoss coil,burner nozzle and oil non-return valve. Today it has failed to ignite at all and just loks out.
I have chaecked the spark with coil removed and this appears to be excellent.The oil is clean and the pump maintains 11-12 bar. The nozzle and surrounding baffles etc. are wet with oil indicating it is getting through o.k.
The water high temp thermostat seems to be o.k. as ,if I turn it towards minimum, the neon on the control box goes out and vica versa.I have checked for loose wiring connections.
I am seriously beginning to suspect either the Bentone TF832.3 or the flame sensor.However, these have had so little use and has anyone experienced faulty ones so new? Also, is there anything else that is the likely cause of continual locktout etc. thatI've not checked?

Your help would be really appreciated guys!

Burnerman · 22 Feb 2010

For 35 sec oil you should be using a .50 80 deg S nozzle ideally, with a pump pressure of 155 psi.
This model is really only suitable for a conventional flue.....is yours a balanced one?
The electrode tips should be 2mm behind the nozzle, with a 2.5mm gap between the tips. Can you see the spark being blown forward into the oil spray?
The problem could still be the Danfoss coil though - check its resistance with a multimeter.
John

Rodders1 · 22 Feb 2010

John,thanks for quick response.

Yes,am using exactly that nozzle and have conventional flue. 11-12 bar is a bit higher than 155 psi.and will try a bit less,although I think I 'tuned ' the pump in with the gauge until it sounded a smooth burn(when it did start!)

Tip settings are as you suggest.Ihave only see the spark in a mirror but will take the buner out completely with shroud removed and check if the spark comes forward.
Have only just fitted a new coil- is it likely to have gone down so soon? Is the fact that the inside of the burner shroud is covered with clean unburnt oil not an indication that the coil is working o.k. and opening the solenoid valve as it should?
Thanks again

Burnerman · 22 Feb 2010

Hi Rodders
I agree with your theories entirely - if there is kero in the combustion chamber then the valve should be ok although its not a complete test...these danfoss coils do fail from time to time and I always have them in stock.
So - maybe the nozzle is squirting in the wrong direction, or maybe the spark is arcing against the nozzle or blast tube - we just don't know. However, if the burner won't light up at all this usually rules out a photocell problem.
I presume the boiler internals aren't completely sooted up!
Excess oil pressure causes over firing which makes for premature baffle failure, but it shouldn't stop the thing lighting up.
I like to use a volt stick so I can tell when the solenoid coil is being energised, and also a magnet stick so I can tell if the coil is generating a magnetic field.
You could temporarily reduce the air into the burner, but mark where it was first! Good luck with it!
John

Rodders1 · 22 Feb 2010

John,hello from a toasty dining room in france!

I checked the eletrode settings and they were at 1mm so I reset better at the 2mm.I also dropped the pump pressure to 10.5bar

The most significant thing however is that I realised for the first time that the M.S. tube that lines the inside of the burner body has an 'offset' flange. The tube can spin on this locating flange and because it is offset,the tube takes up different positions.At the 'worst' point the tube actually partially obscures the flame sensor. I've not realised the significance of this and could have caused my own problems.

To now the burner has stopped and started on water temp. for 3/4 times without failing.

I've noted what you say about the light stick and will post a note in the morning to say if I'm still o.k.

Again, many thanks for your help and it's a shame you don't live just down the street in our village1

Rodders

Burnerman · 22 Feb 2010

Well, tentatively that sounds like a result, and I'm pleased that you're warm again!
Its probably a good idea to mark such things like the blast tube with a scriber to avoid any mix up on their relocation.
France is without doubt my favourite country and I know most of it quite well. Biker friendly too!
Regards
John

Rodders1 · 23 Feb 2010

Morning John
The euphoria didn't last long. The system ran for about 2 hours last night,stopping and restarting o.k. until one time when it locked out.
The problem I had with not starting at all was my fault with not setting the the electrodes properly.After correcting that I seem to be back to the original problem and a pattern is emerging.
When I restart in the morning(after lockout the previous night)it can take2/3 tries to get ignition.When running, the burner sounds good and burns clean.After ,say, 30 mins of and 3-4 successful stop/starts on water temp.,evetually I get a lockout.Pressing the reset gets it going but next time it stops it then locks out.And so it goes on from lockout to lockout.
In the evening, after not running all day, the whole procedure is repeated from successful running degenerating to lockouts.
I can understand why you think it still a problem with the solenoid. I'll stay with it all morning and if it proves to be the coil is there a better one from elsewhere?
Can the lightstick be used on the electrode leads and flame sensor?

Glad you like France and you're right about the roads.

Rodders

Rodders1 · 24 Feb 2010

morning John

You are spot on! Every time the the burner fails to ignite and locks-out it happens when the coil isn't energised. Without fail,when it's energised,the burner fires.Well done on the light stick tip-so clear!
So,is it definitely the coil breaking down(remember this one's brand new) or could it be the Benetone control box not sending feed? I don't have a megger but can I check the coil with my multimeter?

Thanks for your help
Rodders

Burnerman · 24 Feb 2010

Thats the million dollar (euro?) question......
You need to determine whether electricity is actually being sent to the coil by the control box....for this I use a volt stick that beeps when electricity is present. If juice is getting to the coil but no oil is being let through then either its the coil itself or the valve inside the pump (less likely). If no current is present during the ignition phase then it would suspect the control box.
John

Rodders1 · 24 Feb 2010

John

My volt stick only lights up. There is no light on the stick when it's touching either the solenoid OR the feed cable. So,does that mean it's likely to be no signal from the box when the cable is also dead?The same applies when the stick does light, it can be on the sol. or the cable.
Looks like another purchase from HPS ???
Thanks Rodders

Burnerman · 24 Feb 2010

Check your volt stick on any conductor that you know is to be good.
Then, try the same stick on the wire that goes to the solenoid coil. When the burner runs this has to be constantly live, and the volt stick should light.
However, the magnetic field generated by the solenoid coil can't be tested by this same implement...this is done by a magnet stick, which obligingly lights when it placed inside a magnetic field. Some folks can feel the magnetism when a small screwdriver is placed inside the coil.
Of course, just to irritate matters, we still dont know if the valve inside the pump is actually opening...but one thing is certain, no electricity to the coil means nothing happens.
If you have exposed the control box, check all of the connections to its base for tightness too. I'm sure I'm not the only person to have replaced these needlessly!
Wishing you luck!
John

Boilerman2 · 24 Feb 2010

Check the Photocell, it could be picking up stray light during the purge period, which will prevent power going to the coil & Lock-out, or the photocell could be faulty

Rodders1 · 25 Feb 2010

hi John and Boilerman2

Many thanks for your advice. Down to me to make some decisions.

Will post when I finally get this thing sorted and what the outcome was

Best regards
Rodders

Rodders1 · 28 Feb 2010

Morning John
I've solved the problem. What I omitted to say was that the boiler is housed in a small barn attatched to the house.
On thursday morning I sprayed the internals of the control box with WD40 just in case it was moisture causing the problem. In fact I sprayed the terminals and all the wires .This has cured the problem and the unit has stopped and started for 3 days now without a single blip!

So there we are. Thanks so much for all your kind interest .Good biking

Rodders.

Burnerman · 28 Feb 2010

Morning Rodders!
Well its an ill wind that blows sometimes, and I sincerly hope you've cracked it!

Biking trips into my favourite country will take me to La Rochelle, Noirmoutier and the Normandy beaches for the anniversary in June.

Best wishes
John

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Danesmoor oil fired lockout/ignition failure

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