Ignition Failure in Boiler From Hell (Response 80)

Vehlin · 9 Jun 2010

Hey guys, here's the situation.

I have an Ideal Response 80, please don't run screaming to the hills yet.

About 3 weeks ago the boiler decided that it no longer wanted to ignite, this had happened on one or two other occasions, but rectified itself after trying another ignition cycle.

Cycle is as follows. Request for HW/CH -> HW or CH light comes on on PCB -> Fan LED comes on and Fan spools up -> Ignition lockout light goes out -> No ignition -> Lock out light back on.

Here's what I've done so far: Water pressure is ok, gas pressure appears ok (my gas engineer mate didn't have the bits with him to check the pressure (he was just around for coffee) but gas is making its way into the the fan assembly. We detatched the electrodes from the burner assembly and confirmed that they are sparking during the ignition cycle. We didn't take the burner apart to check the flame sensor/spark generator.

From what I've read it's down to one of two things really, the flame sensor or the spark generator. Would this be a reasonable assumption?

Does anyone know if it's possible to check/clean the flame sensor without taking the burner assembly to bits?

Thanks in advance.

Richard

PS My engineer friend isn't the most reliable of people, I've been trying to get him to come back for nearly 3 weeks without success

mrgas · 9 Jun 2010

Ignition problems on these are often caused by the heat exchangers leaking causing the ingnition electrodes to short.
Not a good outcome usually.
New boiler time maybe?

simond · 9 Jun 2010

Damp insides usually.

Responses are total carp, you should seriously consider the advice given by Mrgas.

transam · 9 Jun 2010

The only time I worked on an Ideal Response , that failed to light same as your problem the cause was a very dirty burner assembly , I changed it & it was o.k , the reason I did not clean it was because I had a number of spare's from previous response's we have removed !!! the boiler's are complete Turkey's !!

Vehlin · 9 Jun 2010

Agree that the things are a nightmare, the whole block has them and every one has had a problem. Sadly replacement is out of the price range for the moment.

Would I be expecting to see a drop in pressure if the HE was leaking? or is it likely to be leaking from the CW side of the exchanger?

First stop then is a good scrubbing for the burner assembly then, I'd better get the coffee machine on and beg/blackmail my mate

kevindgas · 9 Jun 2010

as said above the heat exchanger has most likely failed and no not always do you lose system pressure.

with the fan and gas bits removed put your fingers in the bottom of the combustion chamber and feel round the ledge you will get wet black crud on your fingers if it has failed.

corgiman · 9 Jun 2010

get rid asap

Andygasman2010 · 9 Jun 2010

See if your gas mate friend can take the combustion readings, if it's mucked up inside the readings will be high.

I certainly wouldn't replace anything before checking inside the heat exchanger/burner as it'll probably be a wate of money. A good strip down/clean by your RGI friend will probs keep you going for a few months.

onlyfitidealboilers · 9 Jun 2010

put your hand in your pocket and pay your mate an he might sort it.

coffee not enough am afraid

Vehlin · 9 Jun 2010

My boiler breaks once every two years, his computer breaks every 6 months, it's a fair trade

Agile · 10 Jun 2010

He may not see it that way. I have a strong feeling that he may not be seeing repairing your boiler as any priority because he does not expect to be paid.

There is always the likelyhood that he may not be terribly familar with diagnosing faults on that model.

It seems for your description that the boiler is not actually igniting. As explained above thats often because th heat exchanger is leaking and the ignition electrodes are wet as a result of a leak. Its easy for an engineer to remove and inspect and then clean ther ignition electrodes. That usually enables the boiler to ignite and it will often run until its turned off and the the leak wets the electrodes again.

Expect that the boiler will need to be replaced but I find that about 40% do have a repairable fault such as a faulty spark generator although it sounds as if that may have been tested as OK in your case which would point to the leaking fault. It seems odd to me that the RGI has not removed and expected the electrodes.

Tony

Agile · 10 Jun 2010

I agreed to connect up a kitchen sink for a customer whose boiler I have been repairing for a few years.

The new kitchen had been fitted by an installer from Europe who has now left the country without totally completing the job.

They have apparently bought some double sided adhesive tape and asked me to fit the sink using that. The sink is a B&Q standard stainless sink with no mechanical method supplied to hold it in place.

My question is whether double sided adhesive tape is an acceptable way to hold down the sink and provide a water tight seal?

Tony

gasright · 10 Jun 2010

Agile said:
I agreed to connect up a kitchen sink for a customer whose boiler I have been repairing for a few years.

The new kitchen had been fitted by an installer from Europe who has now left the country without totally completing the job.

They have apparently bought some double sided adhesive tape and asked me to fit the sink using that. The sink is a B&Q standard stainless sink with no mechanical method supplied to hold it in place.

My question is whether double sided adhesive tape is an acceptable way to hold down the sink and provide a water tight seal?

Tony

??

You been to amsterdam again?

onlyfitidealboilers · 10 Jun 2010

Agile said:
I agreed to connect up a kitchen sink for a customer whose boiler I have been repairing for a few years.

The new kitchen had been fitted by an installer from Europe who has now left the country without totally completing the job.

They have apparently bought some double sided adhesive tape and asked me to fit the sink using that. The sink is a B&Q standard stainless sink with no mechanical method supplied to hold it in place.

My question is whether double sided adhesive tape is an acceptable way to hold down the sink and provide a water tight seal?

Tony

see agile that is the diffrence between you an most uo us "tradesmen" on this site we can do the lot!!!!!

Vehlin · 10 Jun 2010

Some progress.

Had the burner to bits and the good news is there's no evidence of any water damage or corrosion, the electrodes were also sparking nicely. Gave it a clean just to be on the safe side.

However this leaves me largely back at square one, my main thoughts on the culprit are the gas solenoid or the valve itself. My reasoning behind this is that during the 10 sec ignition cycle the boiler is pulling about 38-40 litres of gas/min (by the meter) which is below the lowest level given in the book. As a contrast I also timed the gas meter of one of the other boilers in the building and it's doing somewhere in the 60 l/min mark.

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Ignition Failure in Boiler From Hell (Response 80)

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