Installing New Halogen Lights On An Older Lighting Circuit

dsilvahub · 8 Sep 2005

Hi,
I'm installing two new halogen lights into a hallway with two traditional lights with separate lightswitches. I've examined the ceiling roses and have 3 red, 3 black (1 black is tagged with red tape) and 2 green/yellow striped wires. I've examined the diagrams online and this seems different.

Thanks in advance,
dsilvahub.

johnny_t · 8 Sep 2005

Does the second post here....
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7553&start=0
make sense ??

Which cable doesn't have the Earth though (Green/Yellow) ??

Spark123 · 8 Sep 2005

Or are there two bare copper wires in one green/yellow sleeve?

ban-all-sheds · 9 Sep 2005

dsilvahub said:
I've examined the diagrams online and this seems different.

There are 4 drawings of a standard loop-in system ceiling rose in the For Reference section:

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=35550#35550

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=38148#38148

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=38252#38252

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=153373#153373

If you really can't see that (notwithstanding the missing earth core) this is exactly what you've got, maybe you shouldn't be DIYing..

dsilvahub · 9 Sep 2005

Thanks for the replies guys, yeah thereare 3 green yellow wires, 1 of them has 2 copper wires going into 2 separate electrical cable going into the ceiling (does that make sense???). And yep two bare copper wires going into one green/yellow sleeve.

I think I've got an idea of how to wire it up, the link at http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/ceiling_rose.gif helped. The light I'm trying to install doesn't have a place to put the three red wires i've got, so am out to get some blanking plugs. The instructions (made in china) didn't help and the fact that the red sheaf on one of the black wires was so thick it didn't look like a black.
I also found this helped a bit:
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/How_it_Works/Question83628.html

Will try to fit on weekend and hopefully will work, will let you all know, thanks for all the help.

dsilvahub.

ban-all-sheds · 9 Sep 2005

dsilvahub said:
Thanks for the replies guys, yeah thereare 3 green yellow wires, 1 of them has 2 copper wires going into 2 separate electrical cable going into the ceiling (does that make sense???). And yep two bare copper wires going into one green/yellow sleeve.

So are there 4 earth wires altogether?

The light I'm trying to install doesn't have a place to put the three red wires i've got,

They never do....

so am out to get some blanking plugs.

Blanking plugs??

The instructions (made in china) didn't help and the fact that the red sheaf on one of the black wires was so thick it didn't look like a black.

Be thankful it is properly sleeved - it has made your job easier

I also found this helped a bit:
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/How_it_Works/Question83628.html[/QUOTE]
IMHO, a site where someone posts the classic loop-in rose problem, and describes, accurately, the cables there, and then gets one person replying who says:

It sounds like you have a light that's either controlled by multiple switches, or it's part of a series of lights on the same circuit.

and another:

it does seem like a three way switch on that light. and also where is the white wire?

is a site to be avoided like the plague....

dsilvahub · 9 Sep 2005

yeah I know some of that page can be a bit misleading, some bits were helpful. I should have been more clear, I've got a total of 3 yellow/green (earth) wires. The instructions say 'Fit blanking plugs where required', you know to bind the red wires together and properly insulate it (why that's not included in the light itself, I don't know why - the cheapass budget version I'm taking down has it, the halogen doesn't????).

I went to Mammoth size B&Q Warehouse to get something like blanking plugs but the electrician there says he knows about them but they don't sell em, hmm. He recommended using electric connectors (chocolate boxes) but that's not safe, he said himself that someone might get a shock if they touched the light, nice!

Will try ye little electric shoppe tomorrow.

Hope it makes sense

Have a good weekend everyone.

dsilvahub.

ban-all-sheds · 10 Sep 2005

dsilvahub said:
The instructions say 'Fit blanking plugs where required', you know to bind the red wires together and properly insulate it

I don't really know what they mean - I hope it isn't wirenuts..

I went to Mammoth size B&Q Warehouse to get something like blanking plugs but the electrician there says he knows about them but they don't sell em, hmm.

If he's thinking of wirenuts the I'm not surprised - not even B&Q would sell those.

He recommended using electric connectors (chocolate boxes) but that's not safe, he said himself that someone might get a shock if they touched the light, nice!

He's a complete idiot - choc-block connectors are just what you need, and if placed inside a choc-box are perfectly safe.

How on earth he thought that using them could make the light live beats me. You should have hit him.

Adam_151 · 10 Sep 2005

Don't the amercians use wirenuts quite a lot? anyway when did they stop getting used here, I've found a few in the older bits of wireing in the house, think they have all been removed now, but there could be more

dsilvahub · 10 Sep 2005

Hi Ban-all-sheds,

I don't really know what they mean - I hope it isn't wirenuts..

Do you know what I should be asking for? After reading the instructions I typed in blanking plugs in google images and got a picture similar to that wirenuts, so was looking for those, is there a problem with blanking plugs/wire nuts? Are they suitably earthed??

I'm not sure a chocolate box would fit inside the relatively small base of the light and there's only a small apeture to work with, so short of hacking a bigger hole in my ceiling do you have any suggestions?

Ta,
dsilvahub.

Adam_151 · 10 Sep 2005

If its going inside the base of the light, then choc block conenctors on their own will be fine, its just if you wanted to make a connection in a loft or anything you would need a choc box to enclose it.

Basically, choc block connectors are not suitably enclosed on their own, then potentially someone touching them could be shocked, but if you enclose them in either a choc box, or a base of a fitting, then thats perfectly ok

ban-all-sheds · 10 Sep 2005

dsilvahub said:
Do you know what I should be asking for?

Yes - you need to use connector strips or blocks, or terminal strips or blocks - commonly referred to a choc-blocks on account of the way you can separate off as many as you need like you can the squares on a bar of chocolate. You also need one of those little boxes to put it in.

After reading the instructions I typed in blanking plugs in google images and got a picture similar to that wirenuts, so was looking for those,

Odd - I tried the same, and found none...

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q...=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-31,GGLG:en&start=60&sa=N

is there a problem with blanking plugs/wire nuts?

They don't make a good and reliable connection. I have a feeling that they contravene the wiring regulations, but I could be wrong.

Are they suitably earthed??

Why do you think they should be earthed?

Don't take this the wrong way, but that question makes me wonder how much basic electrical understanding you have..

I'm not sure a chocolate box would fit inside the relatively small base of the light and there's only a small apeture to work with, so short of hacking a bigger hole in my ceiling do you have any suggestions?

Those are the connections you have to use, so if you can't make the hole bigger then there are two alternatives:

1) Access it from above

2) Get a different light.

And BTW:

dsilvahub said:
yeah I know some of that page can be a bit misleading, some bits were helpful.

Just make sure you can tell the good advice from the daft advice from the advice that could get you killed...

dsilvahub · 10 Sep 2005

Hi guys,

Don't worry am very much a newbie but have a basic understanding, not keen on electrocution!

I'll try to get some small choc boxes, what about the connectors you put in em, they come with different amp ratings, like 3amp, 5, etc. Which should I buy?

Thanks.

dsilvahub.

breezer · 10 Sep 2005

5a for lights

dsilvahub · 10 Sep 2005

Thanks breezer.

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Installing New Halogen Lights On An Older Lighting Circuit

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