non-rcd protected outlets

ban-all-sheds · 16 Oct 2003

If I want to put my fridge-freezer on a non-rcd protected circuit, am I allowed such a socket on the ground floor, provided it is clearly labelled?

What if I don't use a normal 13A socket, but instead use, say, a fused IEC320 outlet on a spur?

Or one of the "non-standard" 13A jobbies like these:

Or am I simply not allowed to have any pluggable outlet of any sort that might be used to supply something outside? i.e. is my only option a fused captive flex outlet into which I hard-wire my F/F?

spark · 16 Oct 2003

You don't have to have every socket on the ground floor protected by an RCD. If it's a single socket behind the fridge, with the fridge plugged in, then it could not reasonably be expected to be used to supply equipment outdoors

il78 · 16 Oct 2003

The regs say something like " any socket outlet which is reasonably expected to power equipment for external use should be protected by an RCD / 30mA etc "

In my own home I would put a normal socket on, because I know its only going to be used by the fridge freezer........but its more than likely against regulations due to the fact its on the ground floor sockets.

Fuse spur idea is the safe option.......the non standard jobbies....to be honest, I'm not a 100%...but I cant see the problem, only if you were to use a non-standard plug-top on other equipment.

I have spoken to the NICEIC about this before asking them if a RCD socket outlet located at the front and back doors would satisfy regulations and labelled "Outdoor Equipment Only" but they said all ground floor sockets are likely to be used (something I still disagree with, but regs are regs).

I like the way your thinking though...........

spark · 16 Oct 2003

In summary, there is no regulation that says that every socket downstairs must be protected by an RCD. It's down to you to make a decision as to whether each socket could reasonably be expected to be used to supply equipment outside. Generally there are lots of sockets on the ground floor which could reasonably expected to be used for equipment outdoors, and therefore people tend to protect the downstairs ring with an RCD. There are exceptions in my opinion such as in your case where you are installing a socket specifically for an appliance which is very unlikely to be i) easily accessible with the fridge in place, or ii) unplugged to be used for something else instead. It's one of those regulations where it's down to interpretation, but from what you've said, in my view you will be safe to use a normal socket outlet.

il78 · 16 Oct 2003

Just to stir things up........and not that there going to care....but what happens when they move property and the fridge is taken out, leaving it an unprotected socket outlet......likely to be used to power equipment outdoors ?

But as spark said...the regs are open to interpretation.....

ban-all-sheds · 16 Oct 2003

That was my thinking behind using a non-standard socket. Any future occupier would have to turn off the circuit to replace it with something he could use, and would then discover it wasn't protected.

breezer · 16 Oct 2003

surley some one would only "discover it is not protected" when it is too late

spark · 16 Oct 2003

...I'll bite my tongue at this point. I feel dizzy from the circles we're going round in...It's easy to be a text-book spark, it's easy to be a slack spark; the hard part is striking the difficult balance between the two, taking into account real-world situations and the requirements of the regulations.

ban-all-sheds · 17 Oct 2003

Sorry - never meant to make anybody dizzy.

In reply to Breezer, my thinking was that unless a future occupant happened to have an extension lead or outdoor appliance with one of those non-standard plugs on it, then the socket could not be reasonably expected to be used outdoors (or at all, in fact). And if he then changed the socket, he would (presumably

) go to the CU, find that the circuit was on the non-protected part of the CU, and then have to make his own determination about what to do.

But I think I've been far too analytical and devious for my own good - I'll content myself with an ordinary socket, and if/when I move out I'll firmly attach a label to it warning that it is unprotected.

breezer · 17 Oct 2003

some people may not understand what the label means. I am not joking, some people just either do not understand or just don't want to know. and what if you forget to label it.and suppose the new owner can not read?

I know i am being over cautious (to say the least) but i wouldn't want it on my conscious

ban-all-sheds · 17 Oct 2003

There comes a point where you've done everything that is "reasonable".

I'll do the label when I install the circuit, then I won't forget it.

I'll put a picture on it

and an explicit explanation not to use it for something outdoors.

Or I'll put a hook in the wall behind the fridge, and hang a bag under it containing a fused flex outlet and a screwdriver so that if I'm moving out, even if everything is packed away in the removal van, I'll be able to swap the socket out in a matter of moments...

I dunno -I'll think of something - all I want is my fridge on a non-rcd supply, and plugged, not permanently wired in.

supersparks · 29 Oct 2003

ban-all-sheds said:
If I want to put my fridge-freezer on a non-rcd protected circuit, am I allowed such a socket on the ground floor, provided it is clearly labelled?

What if I don't use a normal 13A socket, but instead use, say, a fused IEC320 outlet on a spur?

Or one of the "non-standard" 13A jobbies like these:

Or am I simply not allowed to have any pluggable outlet of any sort that might be used to supply something outside? i.e. is my only option a fused captive flex outlet into which I hard-wire my F/F?

Why not use a fused spur with a tail leading to a low level flex outlet plate this satisfys regs because it in no way a socket

ChrisRogers · 29 Oct 2003

well, where is the fridge located?

ban-all-sheds · 30 Oct 2003

It's in the kitchen - why?

Anyway - I think the advice above makes sense - if the socket is in use and behind a fridge, it can't be reasonably expected to be used to supply outside.

And I've thought what to do if/when I move out - disconnect the cable at the CU. Then there is a dead socket, and it's up to the next occupant where he connects it.

ChrisRogers · 30 Oct 2003

well how many people will unplug your fridge to run a lawnmower..no boubt they pass another socket before they get there.

itf its a fullheight fridge maybe you could put it as high as you can, then it could be out of reach.

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non-rcd protected outlets

breezer

breezer

supersparks

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