3 Position 2 Way switch

dhutch · 21 Feb 2015

I am after a 3 position on-off-on switch, I am aware they are not common, but have seen a few around and would like to buy one.

Switch will be used to switch the floodlights I am putting up, to allow me to have the on, off, or pir controlled.

If it comes to it will just omit the ability to turn them 'off' but if anyone knows a supplier that would be a bonus.

Daniel

rsgaz · 21 Feb 2015

This sort of thing?

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK4899.html

Gaz

EFLImpudence · 21 Feb 2015

Most PIRs allow what you want by manipulation of the ordinary switch.

dhutch · 21 Feb 2015

EFLImpudence said:
Most PIRs allow what you want by manipulation of the ordinary switch.

Indeed, sadly mine don't.

rsgaz said:
This sort of thing?
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK4899.html

Exactly that.

Do they mount directly into the grid plates or do you need a grid frame as well? I see the do plastic grid plates which would be required, not a cheap option, but yes.

Daniel

flameport · 21 Feb 2015

Those switches fit into a grid frame, the frame is secured to the backbox, and the front plate is fixed to the frame. Same for metal or plastic fronts.

Another option is two switches, one for on/off, the other for auto/manual.

bernardgreen · 21 Feb 2015

flameport said:
Another option is two switches, one for on/off, the other for auto/manual.

Probably the best option for keeping the wiring simple.

PIR with overrides

bernardgreen
18 Mar 2011
20

Using two single pole switches to provide overrides for a basic PIR

A more refined method is keeping the PIR sensor powered at all times and using a two way centre off switch to connect lamps to either Permanent Live ( override ON ) or to the Switched Live from the PIR sensor ( Automatic operation ) This avoids the lamp coming on for a timed period when power is switched ON to the PIR sensor and the PIR is settling down.

dhutch · 23 Feb 2015

bernardgreen said:
A more refined method is keeping the PIR sensor powered at all times and using a two way centre off switch to connect lamps to either Permanent Live ( override ON ) or to the Switched Live from the PIR sensor ( Automatic operation )

Indeed, just needs a lot more cabling!

bernardgreen · 23 Feb 2015

If the lamp and PIR and in the same unit then five core cable from lamp / PIR to the switch is all that is needed ( assuming Live and Neutral are at the switch.

[1] Earth
[2] Neutral to the PIR and the lamp
[3] Live to the PIR
[4] Switched Live from the PIR
[5] Switched Live to the lamp. ( as selected by the switch )

Five core is used in heating systems as is easy to find.

securespark · 23 Feb 2015

flameport said:
Another option is two switches, one for on/off, the other for auto/manual.

Or what I used to do was put a fused spur next to 1G1W switch on a dual accessory pattress or box.

Then you have DP switching. You could achieve this with grid, but it would be more expensive.

ldoodle · 23 Feb 2015

EFLImpudence said:
Most PIRs allow what you want by manipulation of the ordinary switch.

How so? Similar to the OP, but I would like all but the manual 'off' position.

So if a traditional switch is in the 'off' position, the PIR is active. If the switch is in the 'on' position, it's permanently on.

The light in question is the last on the radial, so cable coming in (supply), cable going out to the switch. Both T+E.

Thinking out loud: connecting the supply live into the PIR terminal should be enough, so with the switch off there's still a supply, but with the switch on would it overrule the PIR 'permanent' live. The Del Boy in me is laughing that when motion is detected the PIR turns the light off instead

Is this really any different to a fan with run-on timer that has 2 live connections when the switch is activated.

Thanks

PS: In my case the PIR is part of the light, not separate.

EFLImpudence · 23 Feb 2015

ldoodle said:
EFLImpudence said:

Most PIRs allow what you want by manipulation of the ordinary switch.

Click to expand...

How so? Similar to the OP, but I would like all but the manual 'off' position.

No, you need the permanent OFF option.

So if a traditional switch is in the 'off' position, the PIR is active. If the switch is in the 'on' position, it's permanently on.

That would be correct but it should be wired simply as OFF or ON supplying switched live to the PIR.

Most PIRs work -
When switched ON the lamp lights for the set time and then reverts to automatic sensor mode.
After this if you switch OFF/ON/OFF/ON the light stays on permanently.
When switched OFF it is OFF permanently.

Is this really any different to a fan with run-on timer that has 2 live connections when the switch is activated.

Yes, as the PIR only has one (switched) live connection.

In my case the PIR is part of the light, not separate.

That doesn't matter although obviously yours may not operate as above.

AlanE · 23 Feb 2015

How so? Similar to the OP, but I would like all but the manual 'off' position.

This can easily be achieved by using a standard two way switch.

Connect lamp to common and live to one of the other two terminals then supply from PIR to remaining terminal.

Lamp MUST be connected to common then switch in one position would supply permanent live to lamp and other position would supply PIR switched supply to lamp.

nickpowell77 · 25 Feb 2015

rsgaz said:
This sort of thing?

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK4899.html

Gaz

I have exactly the same question as the OP, so pleased to find this thread. Does anybody know if there are decorative versions of these switches? I have black nickel finish on my switches and sockets and would ideally like to keep it the same.

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3 Position 2 Way switch

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