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How to fit a fire door?


 
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punjabi

from United Kingdom

Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Middlesex,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 2:22 pm Reply with quote

All,

I've got to fit a 30 minute fire door on a property that's rented to a Housing Association. I've worked out what door to get and from where. However, I'm a little unclear as to what other bits have to be in place for the door to pass it's test, so as to speak.

So, my questions are....

1) Hinges
I'll be using the special recommended ones - however, is there a
legal requirement to have 3 hinges per door? Or will 2 be sufficient?
The door in question is 78" X 30" and will be less than 40kg in
weight.

2) Frame.
Can the existing door frame remain, or will I have to have it
replaced with a special one? The door is 44mm thick, so if the
existing frame is 44mm deep, than can I just leave it in place?

3) Door closers
The door has to auto-shut. I have a choice of 'Sprung closers' which
are surface mounted and very easy to install, or 'Radius Plate
Concealed' which are like a 6 inch long, 1 inch diameter tube that's
fitted on the inside the door. I'd prefer the former - does anyone
know if legally they are acceptable ona fire door?

4) Intumescent strip
How exactly is this supposed to be fitted?

5) Paint
Can I use normal paint on the door, or is there some kind of
regulation regarding this too?

Many thanks in advance.
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2scoops0406

from United Kingdom

Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 4865
Location: Buckinghamshire,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 2 times

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 3:29 pm Reply with quote

Get someone to fit it for you. You obviously don't know how to do it, therefore invalidating any licences / insurance. Not being rude but that's the score.
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masona

from United Kingdom

Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 12782
Location: Essex,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 110 times

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 3:36 pm Reply with quote

I used to do these fire doors in rest home and it have to be perfect, the thickness of 2p gap all round the door and even the doorstop have to be hardwood 25mm x 25mm & screws at every 9". I don't have the latest details now as Eddie pointed out, best to get the pro in, building inspector can give you a hard time over this icon_cry.gif
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punjabi

from United Kingdom

Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Middlesex,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 10:14 am Reply with quote

... I WAS hoping to get someone in to fix the doors, but all the builders/carpeneters I've spoken to, are happy to do what I ask them, but none of them are sure of the fire regulations.

So, that's why I just need to be clear in my own mind that what I ask for is actually what will meet the legal requirements.

Thanks again.
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Scrit

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1094
Location: Lancashire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:30 pm Reply with quote

Why not speak to the local council Building Control? Round here they are generally only too happy to help you.

Last fire doors I fitted (in a restaurant) required 30min rating, intumescent strip round all three sides (routed into the edge of the doors)although no smoke seal surprisingly, fire rated hinges (3 off, 2 top/1 bottom - stainless steel with bearings in this case), a Briton-style lever closer (the fire certification guy wouldn't accept the type buried in the door as it wouldn't meet BS EN1154/BS 8300 the two current standards), a hardwood threshold to reduce the gap at the bottom of the door and the door casings to be cleared out and packed with intumescent mineral wool. The fire inspection officer wasn't bothered about the finish, but the insurers insisted on a clear intumescent finish.

Fire doors are currently a bit of a minefield with several conflicting regulatons (thank you Fatty Prescott!) which is why you need to ask the Building Control Officers aty the council and the building's insurers. If you are doing this and can't hang a door with tight tolerances then get a joiner in - fire doors are not for beginners.

Scrit
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Jonathon Winter

from United Kingdom

Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Sussex,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:02 pm Reply with quote

Hi,

I think I may have a bit more info to help you, you dont need to get a 'pro' in, they are fairly simple, as long as your a confident and careful carpenter.

First the door has to be a minimum of 30min fire resistance, which I think you have covered. These are refered to as FD30's

Intumiscent FIRE and SMOKE seals are required. These are strips of a plastic sort or material that expands when subjected to heat of about 200 degrees to seal the door. These must be rebated in to the sides and top of the door using a router.

All ironmongery on your door must be heat fire resistant up to 800 degree's, most timber/builder merchants supply these.

3 Hinges are compulsary

If a letter box is to be fitted, you need to fit a intumiscent letter box These are commonly available at timber merchants.

The door stop can be part of the door frame or added separately, but dimensions must be no less then 12.5 x 35mm they must be glued and screwed on, not nailed.

Door closers are to conform to BSEN1154, ideally a surface mounted closer should be fitted. I really would recommend any other type as these can easily be fitted, maintained and replaced if needed.

Another important factor is the gap between the door frame, and the door opening to which is fixed. Usually a frame will be slightly too small for the opening and packers are used to level it, the archiatrave covers the gap. Ensure that expanding fire resistant foam is used to fill this void.

It is imporatant to fit the door well, 2-3 mm is usually acceptable all round.

Another thing to be carefull of is that a traditional, key oporated mortice lock is not acceptable. A latching lock must be fitted instead (incase a fire occurs and the key cant be found basically)

I think this covers all points.

You may want to bare in mind that the local councils, together with the local fire officer have the overall sayso in what precautions are taken to fire proof a building, these may differ slightly from fire regulations. It's usefull to pop into your local fire station, there should be someone who can give you some guidlines.

OR the easiest thing to do, remembering that if you fit a fire door and there is a fire, if it does not do it's job, you'll be to blame, is to buy a Fire door set. these are door linings, and doors, ready made up to fit. The doors already hung, the intumiscent strips are fitted and they will even fit any ironmongery. All you do is fit the frame and slot the door onto the lift off hinges. Couldnt be simpler and would put your mind at rest that its done properly. Any builder/Timber merchant can help you with these.

Hope this is all usefull to you. All the best. JW
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Propsman

from United Kingdom

Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 1
Location: Bristol,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:33 am Reply with quote

Hi guys

Thanks for all that invaluable information on daily pay rates. I'm getting back into carpentry after a long lay off due to recession. So I am currently pitching myself at 100/day.

Can anyone tell me at that rate how long I should estimate it takes for hanging a door? Would 3 categories suffice?
An internal door + all hardware
External door ditto
A Fire door ditto incl closure.

And while we're at it is there any website where times on estimating other carpentry jobs are listed?

Any advice gratefully received. About to meet a potential customer who needs fire doors hung.
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gregers

from United Kingdom

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 5447
Location: Sussex,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 405 times

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:49 pm Reply with quote

how many doors do you think you will be able to hang/swing in a day??

for internal doors light weight i charge iro 40-45 p/door which (hopefully take anything between 1-2 hrs,

for fire doors its a lot more work invovled so iro maybe double - 100 p/door but that depends on what and how much ironmongery needs to be fitted,
bear in mind the knowledge(alledgelly lol)and the ammount of tools required to do even basic carpentry have to be bought and paid for and maintained and transport.

for other jobs you need to take a hard look at it and try and work out how long you think it will take to do each item and price accordinally,that way you shouldnt shoot yourself in the a**e.
bare in mind also if your going to doing things on day rate the customers arnt stupid they will be expecting a decent show at the end of the day,and not expect you to gain experiance off of there wallets,

good luck by the way.
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Propsman (2 Dec 2009)
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