Racist woman on tram

[joe-90]

But how can it be full if they can come and get a mansion?
Is a million out of work an indication of being full? Or is that an employment indicator rather than a social one?
Where do we find room for them all if we are full?

Again, just interested to get wide range of views.

I think you are just being silly don't you? They can live in cardboard boxes in Wembley Stadium. We can stack them up with forklift trucks.

No Joe, I don't think I'm being silly. A million people out of work does not indicate a full country. It more likely represents a shrinking employment sector which is not necessarily linked to the volume of the population. If a town has 50,000 inhabitants and a company employs 1500 but goes bust. The town still has 50000 inhabitants but a 1500 unemployed. Does that mean that the town is full even if the population remains unchanged. Surely correlation does not imply causation?

People that don't agree with your views aren't necessarily silly, granted some may be but it's probably not the dis-agreeing that wholly makes them silly.

So as long as there is a bedsit empty in Cricklewood the UK is not full up.

OK if that's what you think then that must be true (to you),

 

[Djnikon]

What I think may not be true, I have the sense to accept that. Opinions are formed on the information that one gathers. I accept that I may not have all the facts but then do any of us? If there is anyone in possession of all the facts then I would be happy to see them posted with full analysis of what they indicate and where the correlation between the unemployed figures, the dwindling economy and the country being full become causation.
However, you state not being silly when I said about finding places for them, surely your comment on a bedsit is as much so.
Moving on from that though, we aren't piling them up in Wembley stadium so that must indicate that they are going somewhere.
All I was trying to gain from you is an actual answer as to what constitutes a full country (your previous statements didn't really answer much that couldn't be questioned).
Normally Joe, you are asking for full and frank answers, this is all I am doing. Some facts and figures that are unequivocally linked to populous overload to help me understand why my thinking is wrong would be great
Thanks in advance.

 

[joinerjohn]

"Just when do we agree that the UK is full?

How can you quantify the volume limit of an entire country John/Joe?
I hear what you are saying asking everyone when they think it's full. What are your views as the questioners? Where is that magic mark that indicates that we have no more vacancies?
Have we passed it? If so when? If we haven't, when is it?
That is in no way a slight for or against your argument, I am genuinely interested to know but no one else either can or wants to answer it.

I did put forward a few indicators to decide when the UK is full (if you read my full post) For your memory I'll quote them again.

Is it when we're standing shoulder to shoulder and can't move about?

Or

when we reach a density of 5000 people per sq mile of space, or 1000 people per sq kilometre?

Or

when there's nothing left in the kitty to support further immigration?

And I did suggest that one of these criteria had already been met..

personally I think we've already reached that last one

Al depends whether you read the Daily Mail or the Guardian really ( a reference to another thread )

But in reality, when we have so many people unemployed, I'd have thought it was time, to stop economic migrants coming here.

But anyone prepared to stand up and openly say that we should stop or even limit immigration, is automatically called , racist or xenophobic.
Anyone who dare to mention economic migrants is shot down in the flames of racism. Time to follow the example our European cousins are adopting.

 

[Djnikon]

Thank you John,
As I said, I don't have answers and seek opinion based on fact.
You have given an insight, however have you not posted many of these as questions rather than statements (as in, "is it not when...")?
All I am trying to understand is what is the actual (without it's when this or that) figure that quantified the country full.
Do we know what the actual population is, do we know what the upper limit of population is before we are, as you say, standing shoulder to shoulder?
Populous in terms of people per sq mile/Km is probably the right quantification (we have much free space in the highlands) All I am asking in that case is, using fact as much as possible, what is that per sq m/km volume limitation.
Both you and Joe seem to have a good factual handle on this, please enlighten the unenlightened.

 

[joe-90]

What I think may not be true, I have the sense to accept that. Opinions are formed on the information that one gathers. I accept that I may not have all the facts but then do any of us? If there is anyone in possession of all the facts then I would be happy to see them posted with full analysis of what they indicate and where the correlation between the unemployed figures, the dwindling economy and the country being full become causation.
However, you state not being silly when I said about finding places for them, surely your comment on a bedsit is as much so.
Moving on from that though, we aren't piling them up in Wembley stadium so that must indicate that they are going somewhere.
All I was trying to gain from you is an actual answer as to what constitutes a full country (your previous statements didn't really answer much that couldn't be questioned).
Normally Joe, you are asking for full and frank answers, this is all I am doing. Some facts and figures that are unequivocally linked to populous overload to help me understand why my thinking is wrong would be great
Thanks in advance.

If we build on all the green belt land we could double our population - but we don't export anything to pay for it so it would be a third world slum. Lets do that then shall we? Let's get them there shanty towns built.

 

[joinerjohn]

Djnikon, here's a link to Migration watch and what they have to say on the subject (including some figures)

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/what-is-the-problem

Please feel free to browse their site and click links to government reports etc. This will give you a good grounding in immigration truths and downright lies told by governments and the suppression of reports by the previous administration.

 

[Djnikon]

Djnikon, here's a link to Migration watch and what they have to say on the subject (including some figures)

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/what-is-the-problem

Please feel free to browse their site and click links to government reports etc. This will give you a good grounding in immigration truths and downright lies told by governments and the suppression of reports by the previous administration.

Thanks John, This may prove to be the detail I was looking for. Much appreciated.
Joe, please reel your neck in, I wasn't suggesting that we do this or that, I was asking for detail around what constitutes a full country. I don't purport to have all the answers like yourself but I live in hope of learning.
I agree with you on some topics as I have posted on GD, and some I don't - this will happen in life, no need to treat people like idiots or lower class just because they do.

 

[Djnikon]

If we build on all the green belt land we could double our population - but we don't export anything to pay for it so it would be a third world slum. Lets do that then shall we? Let's get them there shanty towns built.

Oh and Joe, that's not really a full and frank answer with facts and figures as requested.

John, I may have missed a bit on that site, it's full of some really great ifo BTW, but is there a section on it that shows the outward migration of British people leaving elsewhere and previous immigrants returning home (it may happen, you never know)? I just think in order for me to form what I would class as an educated opinion on this it would be great to see both sides of the ledger as it were. We always talk about the inbound strain but what about the outbound easing.

 

[joinerjohn]

According to Migrationwatch

6. Under the Labour government, 5.2 million foreign immigrants arrived in the UK while 2 million left. Thus net foreign immigration was 3.2 million while about one million British citizens emigrated in that period. Despite the recession and the introduction of the “tough” new Points Based System, net foreign immigration has remained high and has in fact increased. Net migration for 2010 was 239,000. These current levels of immigration are far higher than at any time in our history

So there you have what they see as net immigration into this sceptred isle. (still takes no account of illegal immigration though)

 

[Djnikon]

Good stats John. It is an interesting site. I think I will download a few of the statistics excel sheets and see what insights I can glean from them.

You see what can be achieved through rational questions and answers where no one resorts to abuse or taunts?
I like to think that we all have the ability to be civil to each other if only some would step out of the box and give it a go.

Thanks again John, I have some weekend reading ahead of me

 

[Whitespirit66]

Now Mr Nikon has some facts to digest, perhaps his future posts won't be padded out with so much waffle.

By the way, how full is Fife? Is there anything for the immigrants to do up there, if we can arrange a fairer distribution?

 

[Djnikon]

Now Mr Nikon has some facts to digest, perhaps his future posts won't be padded out with so much waffle.

By the way, how full is Fife? Is there anything for the immigrants to do up there, if we can arrange a fairer distribution?

Define waffle? Sometimes its just hard to get info from some folk.
Fife is fine thanks, we have a colony of Travellers at the end of the road, just as you turn in to Lothians and a Polish family living at the junction with Perthshire.

Seems you can't question the wisdom of some on here without the "posse" getting the torches out.
So as the dragons say - I'm out.

Oh and thanks again John - most helpful.

 

[Djnikon]

Is there anything for the immigrants to do up there

Some sheep?

 

[cantaloup63]

Is there anything for the immigrants to do up there

Some sheep?

White sheep or black sheep

 

[Djnikon]

Is there anything for the immigrants to do up there

Some sheep?

White sheep or black sheep

Little from column A, little from column B

Northern Fife caters for all tastes. Auchtermuchty for example, 150 famlies... 2 surnames!