Does anyone prefer them to the old ones?
Does anyone not mind either way?
Does everyone quite dislike them?
Does anyone not mind either way?
Does everyone quite dislike them?
Harmonised colours
- Thread starter ebee
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just take em for granted really, we were so used to flex colours it was easy really.
Three phase sometimes makes you think though regarding phase sequence if you dont do it much
Three phase sometimes makes you think though regarding phase sequence if you dont do it much
I don't mind harmonised flexes, there is some logic in that when it comes to European appliances.
But there was no logic in changing the colours on fixed wiring. Why match it up with the rest of Europe? It's not as though GB is joined to any other countries - there is a great barrier of sea around it, so there would never be any confusion.
But there is confusion now, as installations have mixed colours. How can that be an improvement? The very idea is just 'messy' to say the least. Dangerous in some ways, as the blue and black in a 4 wire system are effectively reversed.
There's nothing harmonised about an installation with two colour systems, it's more of a problem now than it ever is.
Not that I've experienced any problems with two systems, but the very idea is pathetic. And you can't even get regular t and e cable in white.
If we had to have the colour change, in hindsight it should have been done before 1950, as those installations are mostly all gone now as the wiring crumbled away.
AND DO NOT, NOT GET ME STARTED ON PEOPLE WHO USE THE BLACK AS NEUTRAL ON A THREE CORE AND EARTH CABLE, AND PEOPLE WHO DO NOT REALISE RED IS BROWN, YELLOW IS BLACK, AND BLUE IS GREY.
But there was no logic in changing the colours on fixed wiring. Why match it up with the rest of Europe? It's not as though GB is joined to any other countries - there is a great barrier of sea around it, so there would never be any confusion.
But there is confusion now, as installations have mixed colours. How can that be an improvement? The very idea is just 'messy' to say the least. Dangerous in some ways, as the blue and black in a 4 wire system are effectively reversed.
There's nothing harmonised about an installation with two colour systems, it's more of a problem now than it ever is.
Not that I've experienced any problems with two systems, but the very idea is pathetic. And you can't even get regular t and e cable in white.
If we had to have the colour change, in hindsight it should have been done before 1950, as those installations are mostly all gone now as the wiring crumbled away.
AND DO NOT, NOT GET ME STARTED ON PEOPLE WHO USE THE BLACK AS NEUTRAL ON A THREE CORE AND EARTH CABLE, AND PEOPLE WHO DO NOT REALISE RED IS BROWN, YELLOW IS BLACK, AND BLUE IS GREY.
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With Europe using brown and two blacks to go to brown, black and grey was not really harmonising with Europe.
Had they selected unused colours it would have been great but to have black used both for neutral and phase is asking for problems.
From what we are told the change was because red - green colour blindness is common so I could see the point with flex but with fixed wiring who would become an electrician when colour blind?
Had they selected unused colours it would have been great but to have black used both for neutral and phase is asking for problems.
From what we are told the change was because red - green colour blindness is common so I could see the point with flex but with fixed wiring who would become an electrician when colour blind?
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I'm not bothered either way.
When working on 3phase do not wire by colours. Wire by numbers i.e. strip a four core cable and you don't have Bn Bk G and Be, you have L1 L2 L3 and N. It's simple.
It was a bit odd at first, but you soon get used to it when you're working with it day in day out.
I've not heard so much as even anecdotal evidence of anyone having had problems mixing old and new colours. In all reality it's not all that common to actually joint old on to new. It's more likely that you'll be wiring a new circuit from a dist board that was fed in old colours, but the new circuit is harmonised.
It's been around for nearly 10 years now
When working on 3phase do not wire by colours. Wire by numbers i.e. strip a four core cable and you don't have Bn Bk G and Be, you have L1 L2 L3 and N. It's simple.
It was a bit odd at first, but you soon get used to it when you're working with it day in day out.
I've not heard so much as even anecdotal evidence of anyone having had problems mixing old and new colours. In all reality it's not all that common to actually joint old on to new. It's more likely that you'll be wiring a new circuit from a dist board that was fed in old colours, but the new circuit is harmonised.
It's been around for nearly 10 years now
In automotive electrics to differentiate circuits, a main colour with a second "tracer" colour is used (in much the same way that the CPC is green/yellow)
Why, when the new colours were brought in, were they not Solid Brown, Brown with grey and brown with black to indicate the three phases? Neutral blue, but a sleeve blue with black tracer available to use where old and new colours were mixed. Think about it. Mix up the blues and you WILL get a big bang! The sleeve will act as an aide-memoire not only for the installer, but all those who come along in the future fault-finding and extending.
I know it's too late to (realistically) do anything now, but with a bit of forethought.........
Why, when the new colours were brought in, were they not Solid Brown, Brown with grey and brown with black to indicate the three phases? Neutral blue, but a sleeve blue with black tracer available to use where old and new colours were mixed. Think about it. Mix up the blues and you WILL get a big bang! The sleeve will act as an aide-memoire not only for the installer, but all those who come along in the future fault-finding and extending.
I know it's too late to (realistically) do anything now, but with a bit of forethought.........
Whatever discussions there may be about the logicality or otherwise of the colours, or of the concept of harmonisation, I presume it makes little difference to electricians. They will use whatever colours they have to use and will very rapidly get used to them to the extent that they become 'second nature'.
However, I suspect that the colour change may have slightly increased hazards for non-electricians, because of the psychology of perception, which has been reflected in widespread colour-coding conventions (signs etc.). Red and Yellow tend to be associated with (and used to convey) the concepts of 'warning' and 'danger', whereas Black, Brown, Grey and White are more likely to be regarded as 'less dangerous', or even 'non-dangerous' (I'm not sure where Blue comes in that 'perception spectrum'). The old red and black corresponded with that intuition, but I wonder how many non-electricians intuitively feel that brown is a fairly 'safe' colour, and therefore not as dangerous as they would consider red (or yellow)?
Whatever, I'm sure we're stuck with what we have for at least a good few decades to come.
Kind Regards, John.
However, I suspect that the colour change may have slightly increased hazards for non-electricians, because of the psychology of perception, which has been reflected in widespread colour-coding conventions (signs etc.). Red and Yellow tend to be associated with (and used to convey) the concepts of 'warning' and 'danger', whereas Black, Brown, Grey and White are more likely to be regarded as 'less dangerous', or even 'non-dangerous' (I'm not sure where Blue comes in that 'perception spectrum'). The old red and black corresponded with that intuition, but I wonder how many non-electricians intuitively feel that brown is a fairly 'safe' colour, and therefore not as dangerous as they would consider red (or yellow)?
Whatever, I'm sure we're stuck with what we have for at least a good few decades to come.
Kind Regards, John.
I actually prefer the look of Br, Bl, Gr to R, Y, B. Don't know why 
It's strange though, sometimes when I strip a T+E I expect to see red and black not brown and blue !
It's strange though, sometimes when I strip a T+E I expect to see red and black not brown and blue !
I think we are agreed we haven't had any major problems with the new colours, but can anyone actually think of an advantage of the new colours? I can't.
... the very point I was making. Compared with Red or Yellow, the most probable intuitive perception/association of Brown is very different - and perhaps 'unfortunate'.Kind Regards, John.
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Not sure if still true. There were back in 1980's two systems Lucas and Bosch the Lucas as you say used Brown = Unfused live. White = Ignition unfused. Green = Ignition fused. Blue = headlights. etc and tracers for example red and white on the blue gave left and right headlights. With black being chassis. However the Bosch system used numbers 31 chassis 30 live etc. All wires were black with sleeves except for chassis which was brown and speakers white seem to remember there was another odd colour was red the charge warning light?
With black and brown both being used as chassis as with low voltage the extra low voltage with vehicles also had a problem with colours. And from what I can see today we have a host of vehicle wiring systems all different and although there are colours one has to look them up each time as each manufacture now seems to use something different.
As an auto electrician back in the 1980's we did keep some of the main colours but no way could we hold the range often we would use trailer wiring 7 core to give different colours on a re-wire and so although colours are nice the Bosch idea of sleeves and numbers was far easier to replicate when doing a re-wire.
However if I was selecting colours I would never select brown, black or green as a line colour as they are with different systems all assorted with earth, chassis, or neutral. However to be far the other colours are already used to define voltages purple is very common as is white in panel wiring. So I would have just left it as it was.
As a foot note has anyone ever managed to buy yellow Arctic cable with the correct core colours of Brown, Black and Green/Yellow? All I have seen always has a blue core but with 110v system we have no neutral only by getting four core cable could I get the right colours. Hands up all those who sleeve the blue with black sleeving!
In the 1970's A German electrican friend ( domestic and commercial ) much prefered the (old) British colours as they were much clearer to see and could be more logically associated with functions than the confusing colours they were using in the father land.
I am not a fan of harmonised colours simple because they have bought disharmony into the UK wiring when it comes to which colour does which function. However we are ( in general ) stuck with them.
I am not a fan of harmonised colours simple because they have bought disharmony into the UK wiring when it comes to which colour does which function. However we are ( in general ) stuck with them.
Well, the earth in most people's gardens is a predominantly brown colour.
And grey is a pretty neutral colour.
And black is the colour you'll go if you touch something live.
All makes perfect sense.
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