Gas supply earthing

[Tipper]

Hi, I've realised my gas supply pipe is not earthed near the meter and I believe it should be.

Can someone advise what size earth csa I need to add? I'm thinking 10mm2. (I find the IEE On-Site Guide a little confusing!)

It will be fixed to the outside wall of the house along the gas supply pipe route from the gas meter back to the main earth connection at the electricity meter so unprotected and about 10-15m in length, if that is relevant. The house has PME earthing.

Thanks in advance.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Is the gas delivered to your property in plastic pipework?
If so it is not required to bond the internal gas pipe.
If it is more investigation maybe required to verify if it is bonded or not.
If not belt/braces would be 10mm2, the bonding should be after the gas meter and if bonded out side the clamp should be suitable for those conditions.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Hi, I've realised my gas supply pipe is not earthed near the meter and I believe it should be.

If the meter is outside, the pipe should be bonded at its point of entry to the premises.

Can someone advise what size earth csa I need to add? I'm thinking 10mm2. (I find the IEE On-Site Guide a little confusing!)

Yes. 10mm².

It will be fixed to the outside wall of the house along the gas supply pipe route from the gas meter back to the main earth connection at the electricity meter so unprotected and about 10-15m in length, if that is relevant. The house has PME earthing.

Sounds like the bonding could possibly already be satisfactory at the point of entry - check where the pipe enters the house.

 

[Tipper]

Thanks. It's actually a little more complex...this is a rented flat.

The electrician who rewired the place some years ago earthed the copper gas pipe in a cupboard below the boiler because the boiler is some distance from the gas meter. However the Gas Safe guy who did the last landlord's inspection said it wasn't OK due to there being no earth at the meter!

It seems both methods are OK but Gas Safe won't sign a clean safety cert unless they see the earthing at the meter, so an earth at the meter they will have!

I will get a 10mm2 earth installed to shut them up.

Thanks.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The electrician who rewired the place some years ago earthed the copper gas pipe in a cupboard below the boiler because the boiler is some distance from the gas meter.

If the meter is outside it doesn't matter.

However the Gas Safe guy who did the last landlord's inspection said it wasn't OK due to there being no earth at the meter!

He is wrong. Most plumbers are.
Tell him to consult, and correctly read, the regulations.

It seems both methods are OK

No.

but Gas Safe won't sign a clean safety cert unless they see the earthing at the meter, so an earth at the meter they will have!

Complain.

I will get a 10mm2 earth installed to shut them up.

If that's how you live your life, then do it.

 

[sparkwright]

It seems the gas regs about bonding are different to the electrical regs.

The gas lot expect to see the bonding only carried out at the meter box, not at the point of entry inside the house.

Is your bonding carried out inside the house just where the pipe enters the house? It's not clear.

You could try putting a nicely printed notice in the meter box saying where the bonding is carried out.

Usually gas people couldn't care less about bonding, it seems to me lately.

If your bonding satisfies just the electrical regs, I'd be happy.

However, doing the bonding at the meter box does seem to be the preferred way now, mainly as it satisfies both electrical and gas regs, and makes finding it for inspection so much easier.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It seems the gas regs about bonding are different to the electrical regs.

The gas lot expect to see the bonding only carried out at the meter box, not at the point of entry inside the house.

Is that an actual regulation, or just numptyness?

However, doing the bonding at the meter box does seem to be the preferred way now, mainly as it satisfies both electrical and gas regs, and makes finding it for inspection so much easier.

It wouldn't satisfy the electrical ones if that was not also the point of entry.

 

[EFLImpudence]

How can the Gas Regulations have different rules for Electrical matters?

Is this the relevant document?
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/2451/made

If so, is there any mention of bonding apart from '10'?

 

[AndyPRK]

In new houses in seen green yellow wire running into the external meter box.

Looks a mess If it could be done inside

 

[RF Lighting]

The gas boys think there should be main bonding at the meter position regardless of where it is. They also insist on cross bonding under the boiler. I've also met plenty of electricians who beleive this too.

It's purely down to a lack of education and listening to old wives tales in the wholesalers.

It's good that gas men have become aware of the need for main bonding and that they are flagging it up when it is absent, but they need better education about when and where it is required.

I've actually taken time to explian why bonding is required and where it should be installed to the plumbers I regularly work for. They now have the knowledge to have it installed when it is genuinely required, and ignore daft cases like the OPs.

It also helps them to price jobs more accurately when electrical work will be required.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Where on a gas safe landlords certificate does it mention non-bonding of pipework as a defect?
On most it does not even mention it, so can hardly be a gas regulation!

Your gas inspector is talking out of his wind blower, I would call in another engineer, one that knows the regs.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The gas boys think there should be main bonding at the meter position regardless of where it is.

If that is not an explicit requirement of the regulations which govern their work then they may not refuse a gas regulations compliance certificate because it is not present.

And nor does anybody who refuses to issue a certificate on those grounds have the right to be paid for their inspection.

 

[Tipper]

Gas man didn't identify it as a fault but added it as an observation even though I showed him and expalined where the earthing was and why! (A bit like an advisory on an MOT although I don't suppose many of you professionals run vans over 3 years old ) Interestingly never noted 'missing' earthing before during the last 5 inspections.

I just don't like any unnecessary comments on an otherwise clean safety inspection certificate...it makes the tenants ask questions!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Gas man didn't identify it as a fault but added it as an observation ...
I just don't like any unnecessary comments on an otherwise clean safety inspection certificate...it makes the tenants ask questions!

Gas Safe won't sign a clean safety cert unless they see the earthing at the meter,

Ah. I - and I think, we? - thought you meant he wouldn't give you one; not that you just wanted a 'clean' one.

I have several certificates for flats which, while there is nothing printed on the certificate relating to bonding, it is written under 'faults' even though the installation 'passes'.
I am sure that if there were a green and yellow wire connected near the meter outside which 'just disappeared' that would satisfy them.
They never check where the other end is.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Gas man didn't identify it as a fault but added it as an observation even though I showed him and expalined where the earthing was and why! (A bit like an advisory on an MOT

No, nothing like an advisory on an MOT.

ATEOTD, if you are happy to be blackmailed by an ignorant charlatan into unnecessary expense, that's your lookout.