You mean the same way the Fish people tell the Scots that leaving the UK will have no downside, and they will continue to have open trade, lower taxes, better benefits, no extra costs, busy shipyards and naval bases, and keep the pound?
So do all the people on here claiming that remaining in the EU would be better have all that to support their views?Perhaps, unlike the "out-ers", the "in-ers" don't mistakenly think they can explain it simply. It is not simple, it's highly complex.
It would take, not only a highly articulate person to explain the pros and cons, but also a team of expert researchers supporting them to be able to formulate a sound and substantial argument.
I'm not sure which way you're going here. Are you trying to say that membership should be determined solely on the basis of whether people might be financially better off? I doubt that membership of the EU actually achieves that, but even if it were true, money is not everything.Until then it's merely a value judgement, not an interest judgement.
I.e. it's a judgement based on your beliefs and principles, which can not be monetarily compensated. It's not yet, IMO, a judgment based on interest which can be monetarily compensated.
What are you calling a judgment based on interest? I think the interest of self preservation might well come into play, for example, in the case of the horrendous EU arrest warrant.When the well researched and articulately presented arguments are available, then the interest judgments can be made. But I suspect that the vast majority will still make a value judgment, not be swayed by an argument based on "interest".
Indeed - Do some people think that the U.K. never traded with what were then EEC countries before joining in 1973? Britain would do so again outside of the present EU.I don't believe that should we exit that Europe will refuse to trade with us, they couldn't afford to.
Haven't a good many of us already listed a good many arguments for withdrawal?So, as you suggest, there are no arguments for staying in, similarly, the converse must also be true.
As I see it, the only argument the pro-EU side can come up with against withdrawal is the supposed massive loss of trade and subsequent loss of jobs etc. That would be a valid concern if it were true that withdrawal would result in that loss, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest that it would. Claiming that it would devasting to trade could, surely, then be a case of paranoia? (Although personally I don't think most of the pro-EU crowd actually believes that there would be any substantial loss of trade at all, so they are not paranoid; they just like to try and use that argument to stir up paranoia in others.)So all proponents of either side are, as yet, preaching politics of paranoia.
Or it could be for another reason. Can you guess what it is yet?I wonder if that is why the "pro-EU" side have not yet entered the discussion.
But if they still wanted to be able to buy British goods, putting ridiculous tariffs on them so as to make it unviable wouldn't help to achieve that would it?They may not need to, they could just make it so much more expensive for us by placing trade tariffs. That would mean our goods would be more expensive than EU goods in Europe. That wouldn't be good for us. It would cause us to look elsewhere to replace that trade, which in turn will make it more expensive.
if you are saying that the EU might decide to apply extortionate tariffs as some sort of perceived "punishment" for daring to withdraw from the EU...
This thread is now 18 pages long and from none of the Remainers have I read of one worthwhile reason for staying in the EU.
This thread is now 18 pages long and from none of the Remainers have I read of one worthwhile reason for staying in the EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23239493The UK government wants to claw back some EU powers over justice and policing, but is likely to remain in the European Arrest Warrant (EAW) system.
I can't isolate Joe's last point, bolo, but as I've already explained, countries in EFTA have to recognise the "four freedoms" of the EU, that includes free movement of people. Additionally, they have to recognise the Schengen agreement, which says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreementthe abolition of border checks at the signatories' common borders.