Resident in Relocatable Property

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

no one is suggesting anything anywhere approaching that

I am.
And I think you have amassed quite a few emotive expressions already.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

No one believes it is comparable,

I do.
Can we discuss it rather than just dismissing it?

Do you not think that government is legislating them out of existence?

An unfavourable planning system and the abject failure of local and national government to ensure sufficient sites are built means that around 10,000 people live on land without permission. This makes it difficult for families to access water and sanitation, education and healthcare, which has a significant impact on the health and educational outcomes of Gypsies and Travellers. To evict families from pillar to post, when there is an absence of places where Gypsies and Travellers are allowed to stop or to live, is a punitive approach which just creates more encampments and more misery for all.
https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/accommodation/

Government set to pass new ‘hostile’ anti-Traveller laws this autumn
https://www.travellerstimes.org.uk/...t-pass-new-hostile-anti-traveller-laws-autumn​

 

[Trazor]

Can we discuss it rather than just dismissing it?

If the original premise is flawed, then no meaningful discussion may be had.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Priti Pathetic annouces new laws do deal with travellers:

New laws will make it easier to prosecute travellers who set up illegal camps across Britain | Daily Mail Online

Nothing will change of course...

 

[durhamplumber]

This allows a nomadic lifestyle for those that choose it.

The UK allows for ""Nomadic lifestyle""

 

[durhamplumber]

intended it merely as a vehicle to compare and contrast the stance taken by UK against Chinese policy, when the UK is also conducting a comparable policy against a minority.

The two are not comparable no matter how hard you try to shoehorn them together

 

[durhamplumber]

My apologies (especially for those that suffer from ADS) for resurrecting a previous closed discussion, but I'm not resurrecting the same discussion, but drawing a new comparison. I have used woody's comment merely as a starting point and because it was the first in the 'most recent' search category.
View attachment 219034
The singular purpose of the thread is to open discussion, seek out other knowledge, hear opinions (not racist comments), and develop a more open minded approach.

I am comparing the criticism against China for the treatment of Uighurs in China, with that of UK's treatment of residents in relocatable property (boats and caravans specifically).
Please note, I am not defending or criticising either practice, merely contrasting the criticism of China's policy towards Uighurs with that of UK's policy towards residents in relocatable property.

Residents in relocatable property in UK hardly exist at all. That is because it is almost impossible to become a resident in relocatable property in UK.
Residential caravan parks are very few and far between, and those that do exist cater only for the static type caravans. It is not possible to live, or be registered as resident, in other caravan parks due to their restrictions.
Residential boats also are extremely limited, expensive, restrictive, or you need to live below the radar.

In comparison, in France, there is a "residential in relocatable property" category. This allows a nomadic lifestyle for those that choose it. It allows such residents to pay taxes, register for state institutions, etc. I haven't researched other European countries to see if they also allow a "residential in relocatable property" category.

Now to contrast the UK policy with the Chinese policy against Uighurs.
The UK policy could almost be compared to a cultural ethnocide, intentionally legislating out of existence certain cultural practices. An analogy could be used such as legislating out of existence, for example, haggis or Cornish pasties. It is legislating out of existence certain sections of British culture, just because they are minority cultures.

The same could be argued for the Chinese policy towards Uighurs.

Are UK citizens in the moral high ground to criticise such Chinese policies that compare so closely to UK policies?

You champion the LGBGTfeknosewhatnext antiracism brigade and rightly say times change and people must adapt...Yet when it comes to "" gypsy culture"" you want the world to stay as it was 200years ago..Cannot have it both ways.

 

[transam]

I think you are missing the point of the thread:

Unless you are trying to justify the 'legislation out of existence' a minority culture.

I never read the original, post tadge to long winded for me but I will make the following well thought out , considered and intelligent comment

Himmagin u talk ball cocks

 

[EFLImpudence]

An unfavourable planning system and the abject failure of local and national government to ensure sufficient sites are built means that around 10,000 people live on land without permission.​

So - - - - who is allowed to live on land without permission?

 

[durhamplumber]

An unfavourable planning system and the abject failure of local and national government to ensure sufficient sites are built means that around 10,000 people live on land without permission. This makes it difficult for families to access water and sanitation, education and healthcare, which has a significant impact on the health and educational outcomes of Gypsies and Travellers. To evict families from pillar to post, when there is an absence of places where Gypsies and Travellers are allowed to stop or to live, is a punitive approach which just creates more encampments and more misery for all.

Transam is correct...You talk uninformed crap.

 

[Diver Fred]

If you care so much then can you ask the traveling community to stop thinking that people who own their paid for property belongs to the people who bought such and is not the traveling community's. Also that they learn what a toilet is and how it's used.
May I ask you to consider what I've seen in the last few years in the M1/M6/M69 'triangle' :-
An industrial area with shops, hotel and car/lorry parking. About every quarter a groups of travelers would arrive and park their vehicles on the grass verge or in the open car parks - access usually gained by driving through the immature hedges. Once they arrived cars parked in the Hotel car parks would regularly be broken into, Cat's cut off and stolen. Curtain side trailers cut open. The public footpath at the back of the industrial site became covered in human excrement; that reduced when one of the units became a primary/junior school which had a number of wooden, open sided sheds in the grounds when those sheds where used instead or as well as the footpaths. The traveling community kids used the security gate on one office block as a 'fun ride' until it broke.
It took the local authority around 2 days to clear up every time the travelers moved on. Around 4 or 5 ytimes a year.

A district council provided site next door to the car park of a garden center. New cars regularly have have the cat's stolen whilst the owners are shopping in the garden center. Same site, members of the traveling community have broken into a neighbours locked garage (which had welded up doors to stop entry as the owner is away), twice in a period of 8 days and stole his (Ivor Williams) trailer. It known that site is where the trailer ended up as the local police found it there but they couldn't recover it due to the aggression of the travelers.

You say there are no sites for them to reside in for short or long periods but how many actually want to stop in such? Even when such are free to those people.
If you are so concerned may we suggest that you return to the UK, buy yourself a patch of land and convert it to a site for the traveling community and then see how they really behave! Oh and once you the site have a few sheds for you store tools etc. and see how long you have those possessions for. I'm sure you will be most pleased to see their public spirited behaviour and how respectfully you and you possessions are treated.

 

[Brigadier]

Also that they learn what a toilet is....

I don't understand why they'd want to dump on the field , park, or footpath, when they've got them in their plush caravans anyway.
Unless it's just to demonstrate rebellion against society , or contempt for it.

 

[Vinty]

The problem with the travelling community is that they don't seem to do much travelling.
They squat on other peoples land and it takes years to get them traveling again.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

The UK allows for ""Nomadic lifestyle""

Not correct. The UK government has legislated out of existence the lifestyle of nomadic people in Britain.
Over centuries laws such as property, trespass, resident register, need for a permanent address, etc has effectively legislated against the culture.
It recently strengthened the laws to criminalise the lifestyle of nomadic people.
Such legislation and actions have served to alienate and fule prejudice against such people.

Indeed your perception (illustrated below) of Romany Gypsies is a perfect example of how a perception of one section of society is generated among another section of society,
Your promotion of the negative stereotype reminds me perfectly of the same promotion of a perception of Black people in the 50's and 60's in Britain.

https://books.google.fr/books?id=mn4fAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA437&lpg=PA437&dq=perception+of+black+people+eating+habits+and+bones+through+noses&source=bl&ots=Kd4uO0zS1p&sig=ACfU3U1Xq0cJgIvLl6U3BgEODKduZL1bZQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjj3v2OzafuAhV55OAKHZCJAygQ6AEwCHoECAgQAg#v=onepage&q=perception of black people eating habits and bones through noses&f=false​

and

Racial stereotypes are constructed beliefs that all members of the same race share given characteristics. These attributed characteristics are usually negative (Jewell, 1993).
This paper will identify seven historical racial stereotypes of African-Americans and demonstrate that many of these distorted images still exist in society today.
https://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/links/essays/vcu.htm​

and

‘You’re one of the more outspoken Asian women I’ve encountered.’..... ..
But even though she knows the comment is meant as a compliment, it rankles, she says, by trucking in the stereotype “that Asian women are very submissive, very quiet, don’t speak up for themselves.”
http://www.bu.edu/articles/2014/when-words-are-unwittingly-racist-or-sexist/​

and

https://books.google.fr/books?id=qMbnDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT34&lpg=PT34&dq=perception+of+black+people+eating+habits+and+bones+through+noses&source=bl&ots=cf3mMxtVLq&sig=ACfU3U3rYjdQcbSbqWIp4fPE_Yoq-Bg8jA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjj3v2OzafuAhV55OAKHZCJAygQ6AEwBHoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q=perception of black people eating habits and bones through noses&f=false​

and
Even intelligent people are subject to such internalisation of racial stereotypes. Biden, for example on Obama:

"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044​

So while people refuse to discuss in depth and breadth, without resorting to promotion of stereotypical perceptions, such as yours, society will continue to be guilty of cultural ethnocide. And UK will not have the moral high ground to criticise such practices as the Chinese policy towards Uighurs.
Indeed their criticism will continue to be perceived as hypocritical and self-righteous nonsense.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

If the original premise is flawed, then no meaningful discussion may be had.

You haven't attempted to prove that the premise is flawed. You've merely stated it as a fact, and that is insufficient.