Anyone in favour of Nationalisation of utilities?

It’s entirely possible to have a private company but with the govt as only shareholder. Basically that’s what French govt have done with EDF.
The government shouldn't be the sole shareholder.
We need to incentivise those running the business but the profits need to be more fairly distributed.
Its the same old story of who gets the biggest slice of the cake.
The Tories need to realise that times are changing, with Brexit there should be a common identity as one nation, and as one nation the wealth generated as GDP should be fairly shared out.
There should be no problem with people wanting to improve their position in life and in fact it should be encouraged.
 
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Market cap of EDF UK is about 38bn . Then there's Scotty power, and more I think. That's a £ot of cash to spend buying them up
 
You don't need to nationalise the entire supply, just the spinning reserve or offer a subsidy for it that's pegged by gas, this would then leave the rest of the base load subject to more normal market competition. The whole reason we have this fudge in the first place is because noone wants to bid for the base load.

Prices would be higher than before, but better than what's going on now.
 
Market cap of EDF UK is about 38bn . Then there's Scotty power, and more I think. That's a £ot of cash to spend buying them up
Might need to be careful about what is actually bought. Cost of the new nuke station is ~£25b. I think they run all UK nuke stations. Who owns them?
An example of one that should crop up at some point :) chosen with care due to who will own it

The two investors in the Bradwell B project are CGN and EDF Group.
CGN is a major generator of low carbon energy in China and is the world’s third biggest nuclear power company. Beyond nuclear, CGN currently generates 38.6GW of renewable energy globally, including 346MW of onshore wind in the UK and Ireland.
EDF is one of the largest energy companies in the world and owns and operates the existing operational nuclear fleet in the UK.
The two companies are also working together to develop Hinkley Point C in Somerset and Sizewell C in Suffolk. In the case of Bradwell B, CGN owns 66.5% of the project, and EDF the rest.



The gov's end of nuke
 
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You don't need to nationalise the entire supply, just the spinning reserve or offer a subsidy for it that's pegged by gas, this would then leave the rest of the base load subject to more normal market competition. The whole reason we have this fudge in the first place is because noone wants to bid for the base load.

Prices would be higher than before, but better than what's going on now.
The wise thing to have done with the N Sea would probably have been do a Norway. Keep it state owned some how. The privatisation religion is fine but may not be the right thing to do in all circumstances. BP would probably be need to be state owned too. Any solution is unlikely to be perfect but the populations main interest out to be what it costs them.

Other sources in this area - can't do anything about those. Prices will be set by market values.

Hindsight but was our route correct? Irrespective it would probably have been better to go for more nuke and wind much earlier. That way we could still have gas. Mrs T was asked about building a nuke just to keep our own build abilities going. The answer was no. It seems all PM's since even her have been trying to get them built Toshiba hummed and harred and then dropped out. Not enough money in it mentioned. Maybe we are prepared to pay what it costs via our electricity bills now. I assume that is considered when the contracts are set up.

Info on nuke costs. I noticed something typical - it will cost $b's to decommission them. What it doesn't say :) but I didn't look, is that those costs are paid on the fly and continuously recalculated. If they worked it back to the cost per unit over 60 years that would be meaningful. Anti's are very likely to inflate costs anyway. Sad aspect of the world we live in. Those for this and that may be as bad as well but contracts should be met suggesting more care is taken to see they are. :) Interesting to see what happens if they go bust.

I wonder if EDF has £25b kicking about to cover the cost of the one near finished. I'd suspect borrowing figures. Who should borrow the money needed? A snippet google will bring up
Debt is the total amount of money owed by the government that has built up over years. In May 2022, it was £2.36 trillion. The figure almost exceeds the size of the UK economy, with debt having reached 95.8% of gross domestic product (GDP)

It puts £25b into perspective. We will pay for borrowing who ever borrow it. Corbyn tried - he was wasting his breath and made a crap job of explaining anyway. This doesn't mean the gov have to run a business.

I suppose the covid debt lot will kick in now. Silly people - compare it with the whole. Gov's have to make decisions like that at times. The total number isn't seen as being that bad anyway. The view has varied over time - always increasing.
 
Hindsight but was our route correct? Irrespective it would probably have been better to go for more nuke and wind much earlier.

More nuke, certainly, but where does wind sit with nuke - it doesn't. Nuke works best when it runs continuously at full load, cost is very little different between generating at full capacity, than minimum output. Wind output varies continuously, from hour to hour, day to day and is difficult to predict and does not sit well alongside nukes.
 
Nuke works best when it runs continuously at full load,
France used nearly all nuke once as did Sweden. They can be flexible

I'd guess hydrogen figures as well, as mentioned. Maybe for HGV's and some peoples cars.
 
Has any privatisation worked?
Councils were stopped from building, we have Housing association with obscene amounts paid to the Chief Executive, higher rents and poorer service, duplications galore, tax payer picks it all up via housing benefit.
Utilities, no need to nationalise, AFAIK, the infrastructure is still state owned,? Just create a govt company and we can all move to it?

Germany is a good example, CEO is restrained, high standard of living and lots of locally owned companies and manufacturing.

Rather we headed in that direction than the USA
 
Has any privatisation worked?

Telecomms I think has mostly and generally worked well? It was very much stuck in the past before privatisation, didn't work well for the customer and was expensive. Freeing up the network has brought massive advancements, lots of competition and cheaper prices.
 
What's the long term prognosis of nationalisation of the utilities? Has anyone examined whether a price crash could end up being harmful?
 
When BT was privatised a rapid effect was an increase in what we pay. They were also given responsibility for internet back bones - main highways effectively. You may see them about improving telephone lines to enhance internet performance. Eg outside my house changing connections to water proof ones. ;) I asked the bloke what he was doing.

My area again. Along comes a USA company that offers cable. They dug up all over the place, added the street boxes. I took them up on it. Later it stopped working. I did have TV etc but cancelled it.They wouldn't repair it. Add TV again and they would. They were bought up at some point. Now Virgin runs it. If I want cable that is the only company I can use. I do not want the full house TV offering. Do they offer internet only?

Products. Sure they have updated phones but any form of company could do that. I would usually buy a BT phone as they have always been problem free. Last one I bought I didn't like any of them, wrong blocking facilities so bought a different brand. Fine unless I need to key a number in, bank checks etc. Usually doesn't work. Voice can but for some reason not always.

Finances. I am often curious about debt in areas like this. Looked on BT and found comments that theirs needs to be reduced. Feelings that they can't really support it. I didn't look at their accounts to look at gearing etc so may be true or not.

So ok an increase in prices was inevitable when that lot is put together but it's resulted in a bit of a mess. It reduces my choice that they say is it's advantage.

Another. A water company. No interest in reducing leakage but spending millions to divert water from one area to another. Very likely to be borrowed. Others in the same field - sometimes fined millions for sewage discharges. There was a Dispatches on that last night. Gov interference and cuts figure. Latest reason for doing nothing is cost of living increases. They need to charge more to do what they need to do. This is not new problem.

Rail - amazing number of companies involved and gov interference. It seems some aspects are privatised in some areas. Worcester council is having to subsidise their local bus service to prevent it going bust. Some local bus services in rural areas are "rather" limited. The bus frequency in some areas is way higher than it need be = more or less empty buses. Rather different to what B'ham council used to do. Loads when needed then frequency dropped off. I've no idea how they did it.

Side issues. When we pay for the services we are covering dividend, corporation tax and debt. We have little control on how they choose to invest. They just make profit decisions especially in the utility area. Sounds great but is it?
 
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