1 Large or 2 small?

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In the process of having our extension finished and i`m nearly ready to upgrade existing consumer unit and wanted your opinions on best solution.
Presently have an MK 8 way which is original to house built in 2000 which is full. As a new circuits have been installed whats your thoughts on 1 large or 2 smaller CU`s. CU will be located in original location in top cupboard of oven housing in the kitchen.
Circuits required
lights 2 x 6a
smoke 1 x 6a
boiler 1 x 6a (in loft)
ovens 3 x 20a
rings 3 x 32a
garage 1 x 32a
emersion 1 x 32a (dual emersions in loft)
hot tub 1 x 40a (could be lost)
shower 1 x 50a
 
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Why are you not asking the registered electrician who will be doing the work?

Or do LABC know that you are carrying out this NOTIFIABLE work yourself?
 
I would and have divided circuits onto two separate consumer units each with an RCD.

Arrange the circuits so that loss of one CU ( RCD tripped ) does not create any critical situation. For example have some light on one CU and the other lights on the other.

Power in the kitchen on one CU, lights in the kitchen on the other.

Smoke alarms can be put on a lighting circuit. Then if the MCB / RCD protecting the smoke alarm trips the loss of lights will make it obvious. Otherwise the loss of power to the smole alarms may go un-noticed.
 
I would and have divided circuits onto two separate consumer units each with an RCD. ... Arrange the circuits so that loss of one CU ( RCD tripped ) does not create any critical situation. For example have some light on one CU and the other lights on the other.
That is the functionality one wants but, if one is installing new CU(s), I see no real merit (unless there are space constraints) in having two separate single-RCD CUs rather than one, larger, dual-RCD, CU.

Kind Regards, John
 
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I`m a kitchen fitter who is part P, just haven`t done a CU upgrade as normally just minor works.

I understand separate CU`s avoiding critical situations but thought 1 larger board takes less cupboard space and works out cheaper. Down side to a large board is a congested and fiddly to work on.
 
I understand separate CU`s avoiding critical situations but thought 1 larger board takes less cupboard space and works out cheaper. Down side to a large board is a congested and fiddly to work on.
As I said, unless there is a problem of fitting the larger one in, I see no merit in having two rather than a larger, 2-RCD, one. As for working within them, I think I don't think it's necessarily any more difficult working within a large one - although there is more going on within a larger CU, there's also more space.

Kind Regards, John
 
I`m a kitchen fitter who is part P, just haven`t done a CU upgrade as normally just minor works.
What do you mean by "a kitchen fitter who is Part P"? Are you a member of a self-certification scheme which would enable you to self-certify a CU change?

Kind Regards, John
 
Yes I can self certify it just I never done a whole board and wanted peoples opinions. It`ll probably take me forever doing all the testing but got to pluck the courage up sometime :LOL:
Was thinking a 16 way dual rcd jobbie would do nicely
 
I`m a kitchen fitter who is part P, just haven`t done a CU upgrade as normally just minor works.
.

That means you are restricted to only carrying out minor works in association with your plumbing activities. Eg adding a spur, installing control circuits for a boiler, etc.

Unless you are a FULL SCOPE electrician, you are not permitted to notify a consumer unit change. And, in my opinion, you will not have the necessary level of competence to carry out this work.
 
I am defined scope at present but do feel I have the `competance` required after being in the industry for 25 years.
I class myself as `competant` after working with a fully qualified sparks (late father) for 20 years and qualiying myself defined scope 5 years ago.
 
Division of installation is a balancing act between cost and functionality. The
(iv) reduce the possibility of unwanted tripping of RCDs due to excessive protective conductor currents produced by equipment in normal operation.
is a real problem and it is down to a risk assessment.

You can draw 334 amp at maximum load on all circuits, but you will have only a 100 amp maximum main fuse and one has to consider is it really needed to split into so many circuits? Also you must decide on what is grouped on to one RCD.

Oven, rings, garage, immersion, shower and hot tub can all easy cause a RCD to trip where as the risks with lights, smoke and boiler are much lower. The idea is
(iii) take account of danger that may arise from the failure of a single circuit such as a lighting circuit.
and that can be done in many ways. Having ring final and lights for each area on a different RCD so with the use of standard lamps any RCD failure will not plunge one into darkness is a common approach. However having so many items which could allow a build up of protective conductor currents the risks in your case is still high.

Using RCBO’s will remove the problem but also will increase cost so a balance is required. So first thing which hits one is immersion and boiler in the loft having a single feed and three FCU’s would seem to at least remove one MCB/RCBO.

Ovens 3 x 32A and three rings is the next which stares one in the face could you use a kitchen consumer unit?

I always question separate supply to items like alarms having some thing else off the same supply means if for example it tripped while on holiday on return you would find something not working if shared but on a dedicated supply you may never notice.

All my lights come from the same RCD however my stairs have a battery backed light so a failure of a lighting circuit does not produce a danger.

Not all RCD’s are equal and I am told the X-Pole is very good at not tripping, but if I was doing my house again I would want more than 2. In the main this means either more than one consumer unit or use of RCBO’s. The latter will not fit all consumer units and so selecting two or one consumer unit would depend on if I could fit RCBO’s.

Every fuse or MCB creates heat. So consumer units should be in free air not in a cupboard of oven housing. Same applies to sockets and 13A plugs. The plug should be in free air, but there are exceptions where clearly it is not going to be a problem.

In Wales I can see why a kitchen fitter would be a scheme member, but where only doing minor works in England why pay out all that money. You don’t need to register minor works in England except for bathroom work.

As I said down to cost, but likely cheaper to have two consumer units each with two RCD’s than having all RCBO’s so likely I would use two consumer units.

As to what you can notify through the scheme provider there is only one way to find out, and that is ask your scheme provider. With bathroom, new circuit and consumer units being all that anyone in England has to notify having a scheme which excludes some of that would seem rather pointless.
 
I am defined scope at present but do feel I have the `competance` required after being in the industry for 25 years.
I class myself as `competant` after working with a fully qualified sparks (late father) for 20 years and qualiying myself defined scope 5 years ago.
You may well be competent to do the work - I obviously having no way of knowing. However, as has been said, even if competent, you would not be able to self-certify a CU change unless you had full scope membership of a self-certification scheme.

Kind Regards, John
 
I could free up a couple of circuits i`m aware of.
As stated the boiler added to emmersions on a single 32a
3 32a rings stay a down, up and kitchen
3 20a single ovens as they required
1 40a hot tub isn`t required
smokes doubled onto lights.

The arguement for 2 boards is good as loading has the potential to overload main switch.
In reality as we all know the emmersions wont be used as new boiler, we don`t have hot tub, all 3 ovens on full 2-3 times a year, showering doesnt happen while cooking dinner and the garage only has a maintence charger running.
 
3 20a single ovens as they required
Are these ovens all in different locations? With diversity, a single 32A circuit could supply three ovens. Do I take it that the hobs are gas?
The arguement for 2 boards is good as loading has the potential to overload main switch.
Whilst that may be theoretically true, arithmetically speaking, if you overloaded a main switch (usually 100A in a large CU), you would also be exceeding the rating of the cutout fuse (60A, 80A or, possibly, 100A).

Kind Regards, John
 

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