Hey all,
Been reading for a while but just registered and this is my first post.
My apologies for the very long post but I figured it best to try my best to describe the situation as fully as possible so I can hopefully make it clear enough to get the best advice possible.
I need a bit of help with the electrics in my house. I bought a house a couple of years ago which had what appeared to be a nice kitchen refurbishment and a garage conversion into a utility room and shower room.
For a while now the downlights in the kitchen have been switching off and on intermittently. The main problem though is the shower room and utility room. I had the light on the other day in the shower room and the room started to smell of smoke. Obviously I switched the lights off and haven't used them since.
Above the shower is a 240 downlight, which is connected to the circuit by a terminal block and taped with insulation tape. From the terminal block there is a cable going to a transformer, again connected by a terminal block, the other side of which is a thin (ish) black flex that goes on to two 12v downlights. Having pulled these lights out and inspected the terminal blocks, the cable has melted near the blocks and the blocks and tape are extremely brittle and dry. Obviously these have been overheating.
I should also point out that there is a fan in the shower room and is controlled by the other switch on the 2g switchplate. I was a bit suspicious of how the fan and lights were wired when I tried isolating the circuit. The lighting circuit was isolated when I swithed off the utility room ring main. Upon removing the switchplate my suspicions were confirmed when I found two 2.5mm live conductors in one terminal of the switch controlling the fan and the live conductor of the fan FLEX in the other. Surely the flex should be connected to a FCU. The neutral is connected ina terminal block to the neutral of the ring.
I haven't as yet investigated so far as to exactly where the lighting gets its power but suffice to say it's somewhere off the ring main but I can only see the the connections in the back of the switch.
Now I need to get this fixed - obviously. It's currently dangerous. However, I have no money at the moment and can't afford an electrician. I am however familiar with electrics an prior to 2005 had in the past re-wired my old house successfully so do have a bit of knowlege. Having said that, I am not an electrician and do not have access to the test equipment and full knowlege that professional electricians have.
First question is, if I was to fix this myself, does this fall under Part P and would it therefore be notifiable (£180 notice fee to my BCO I believe!)? If it were a straight like for like replacement then possibly not but given that I'm going to have to remove the lights and fan off the ring main and connect to (or create a new - there is a spare way in the CU) lighting circuit then possibly so, especially given that it's in a shower room. If it's notifiable then I'm a bit stuck due to the money situation but will have to make it safe anyway.
My net question is how I really go about fixing it. I'm going to have to remove the lights and fan from the ring main and join the ring main together with terminal blocks and choc box and leave behind a blanking plate where the current switch is (the switch is in the utility room by the way, not in the shower room). I'm then going to have to fit a new switch elsewhere. That's fine. However, what I am unsure of is the best way of replacing the lights.
I don't really like LV lighting but I think I'm going to have to use it. Obviously the first step is to disconnect everything to do with the lights and fan from the ring. So far so good. However, it's here 'm a little stuck. Is installing a LV lighting circuit exactly the same principle as a loop in lighting circuit or would it be better to use a JB circuit?
I was planning on replacing the shower light with a LV shower light (this is all I can find on Screwfix anyway and comes pre-assembled with transformer and junction box etc) and then fitting two LV lights in place of the two current ones, each with their own transformer. The shower light JB would be fed with 1.5mm cable to the JB which would then in turn feed another JB for the first LV light in the chain with 1.5mm cable which again in turn would feed the second LV light in the chain with 1.5mm cable. From each JB would be the supply flex to the transformer for each light.
My other problem here is the melting of the existing connections. I suspect a combination of poor connections, inadequate cable / flex between transformer and light fittings and also the fact that there's insulation in the ceiling space too. There are no fire hoods either. I'm aware that reducing voltage increases amps which has generated more heat than the cables or flex can cope with, especially given that the connections and transformer sat below insulation. Do I remove as much of the insulation as I can before I start? I'll also fit fire hoods although as the room used to be a garage, there is a secondary ceiling above the ceiling into which the lights are fitted. I assume the transformers and connections sit outside the fire hoods.
I am also now worried about the utility room lighting (this is also connected to the ring main) so will probably have to sort that out too. there are 5 LV downlights here all powered it seems from one transformer between switch and first light in the sequence. Does the same apply to this. 1.5mm cable daisy chaining to 5 junction boxes, each JB feeding a transformer for the light?
My other concern is now obviously for the kitchen lighing. The kitchen refurb was done at the same time as the utility and shower room so it's reasonable to assume that the quality of this install is just as poor. Is this the reason why the bulbs go off and on - they overheat and switch off until cool enough?
I appreciate that this work may fall under Part P but with my current financial situation I am going to struggle to afford to do this work myself, let alone pay to notify or to pay a qualified electrician to do it. I would therefore like to do it now (in any event it will be safer than it currently is) and would be extremely grateful for any advice you folks can give.
If necesary, I will have the whole thing re-done by a registered eectrician when I can afford to do so but that's likely to be a couple of years away at least.
Thanks in advance for any advice offered and once again, sorry for the length of the post.
Don
Been reading for a while but just registered and this is my first post.
My apologies for the very long post but I figured it best to try my best to describe the situation as fully as possible so I can hopefully make it clear enough to get the best advice possible.
I need a bit of help with the electrics in my house. I bought a house a couple of years ago which had what appeared to be a nice kitchen refurbishment and a garage conversion into a utility room and shower room.
For a while now the downlights in the kitchen have been switching off and on intermittently. The main problem though is the shower room and utility room. I had the light on the other day in the shower room and the room started to smell of smoke. Obviously I switched the lights off and haven't used them since.
Above the shower is a 240 downlight, which is connected to the circuit by a terminal block and taped with insulation tape. From the terminal block there is a cable going to a transformer, again connected by a terminal block, the other side of which is a thin (ish) black flex that goes on to two 12v downlights. Having pulled these lights out and inspected the terminal blocks, the cable has melted near the blocks and the blocks and tape are extremely brittle and dry. Obviously these have been overheating.
I should also point out that there is a fan in the shower room and is controlled by the other switch on the 2g switchplate. I was a bit suspicious of how the fan and lights were wired when I tried isolating the circuit. The lighting circuit was isolated when I swithed off the utility room ring main. Upon removing the switchplate my suspicions were confirmed when I found two 2.5mm live conductors in one terminal of the switch controlling the fan and the live conductor of the fan FLEX in the other. Surely the flex should be connected to a FCU. The neutral is connected ina terminal block to the neutral of the ring.
I haven't as yet investigated so far as to exactly where the lighting gets its power but suffice to say it's somewhere off the ring main but I can only see the the connections in the back of the switch.
Now I need to get this fixed - obviously. It's currently dangerous. However, I have no money at the moment and can't afford an electrician. I am however familiar with electrics an prior to 2005 had in the past re-wired my old house successfully so do have a bit of knowlege. Having said that, I am not an electrician and do not have access to the test equipment and full knowlege that professional electricians have.
First question is, if I was to fix this myself, does this fall under Part P and would it therefore be notifiable (£180 notice fee to my BCO I believe!)? If it were a straight like for like replacement then possibly not but given that I'm going to have to remove the lights and fan off the ring main and connect to (or create a new - there is a spare way in the CU) lighting circuit then possibly so, especially given that it's in a shower room. If it's notifiable then I'm a bit stuck due to the money situation but will have to make it safe anyway.
My net question is how I really go about fixing it. I'm going to have to remove the lights and fan from the ring main and join the ring main together with terminal blocks and choc box and leave behind a blanking plate where the current switch is (the switch is in the utility room by the way, not in the shower room). I'm then going to have to fit a new switch elsewhere. That's fine. However, what I am unsure of is the best way of replacing the lights.
I don't really like LV lighting but I think I'm going to have to use it. Obviously the first step is to disconnect everything to do with the lights and fan from the ring. So far so good. However, it's here 'm a little stuck. Is installing a LV lighting circuit exactly the same principle as a loop in lighting circuit or would it be better to use a JB circuit?
I was planning on replacing the shower light with a LV shower light (this is all I can find on Screwfix anyway and comes pre-assembled with transformer and junction box etc) and then fitting two LV lights in place of the two current ones, each with their own transformer. The shower light JB would be fed with 1.5mm cable to the JB which would then in turn feed another JB for the first LV light in the chain with 1.5mm cable which again in turn would feed the second LV light in the chain with 1.5mm cable. From each JB would be the supply flex to the transformer for each light.
My other problem here is the melting of the existing connections. I suspect a combination of poor connections, inadequate cable / flex between transformer and light fittings and also the fact that there's insulation in the ceiling space too. There are no fire hoods either. I'm aware that reducing voltage increases amps which has generated more heat than the cables or flex can cope with, especially given that the connections and transformer sat below insulation. Do I remove as much of the insulation as I can before I start? I'll also fit fire hoods although as the room used to be a garage, there is a secondary ceiling above the ceiling into which the lights are fitted. I assume the transformers and connections sit outside the fire hoods.
I am also now worried about the utility room lighting (this is also connected to the ring main) so will probably have to sort that out too. there are 5 LV downlights here all powered it seems from one transformer between switch and first light in the sequence. Does the same apply to this. 1.5mm cable daisy chaining to 5 junction boxes, each JB feeding a transformer for the light?
My other concern is now obviously for the kitchen lighing. The kitchen refurb was done at the same time as the utility and shower room so it's reasonable to assume that the quality of this install is just as poor. Is this the reason why the bulbs go off and on - they overheat and switch off until cool enough?
I appreciate that this work may fall under Part P but with my current financial situation I am going to struggle to afford to do this work myself, let alone pay to notify or to pay a qualified electrician to do it. I would therefore like to do it now (in any event it will be safer than it currently is) and would be extremely grateful for any advice you folks can give.
If necesary, I will have the whole thing re-done by a registered eectrician when I can afford to do so but that's likely to be a couple of years away at least.
Thanks in advance for any advice offered and once again, sorry for the length of the post.
Don
