17th edition OSG

[Dartlec]

Hmm,

So the 17th comes into force on July 1st, I have read that installs designed after 1st June should comply with the 17th, and yet apparently the On Site Guide is not due to be published until 30th May.

Is it just me, or does that suggest they are still arguing over how best to comply with the regulations in The Real World™

Surely it would have been better to publish the OSG at the same time as the regs, so that you could use them in conjuction.

The 'joy' of the regulations is that they can be interpreted in different ways, and the 17th may be a little clearer in that regard, but for us poor Domestic Installers it is nice to have at least some guidance on what are considered 'standard' ways to impliment them that don't involve doing all the calculations and are easy to confirm as compliant at a glance.

discuss..

 

[FingRinal]

All the info is contained in the main Regs book. There is no need to wait for its publication. Most of the OSG's contents are lifted from the big book anyhow.

 

[DESL]

AFAIK there now ammendments being published for BS7671:2008 so don't hold your breath on OSG

 

[Dartlec]

All the info is contained in the main Regs book.

That's true, but the clue to the On Site Guide's usefulness is in its name - On Site.

I don't want to drag my expensive and large book round a job and flick through it with plaster stained fingers to look up a table or refresh my memory in answer to a question. Whereas I won't mind so much replacing the OSG if it gets ruined.

Just seems to me interesting that they are delaying its publication until so close to the implimentationof the 17th. If they really are considering non-type amendments already seems to me they didn't spend long enough finalising the regs in the first place and should have waited until they were ready.

JM2PW (ok, I made that one up but you can work it out if you try )

 

[daytona]

thats nothing ,we have to wait all year to get all the guidance notes.
very clever people the iet, but i cant see the logic behind changing the regs before sparks have access to the the literature.

 

[dingbat]

The 'joy' of the regulations is that they can be interpreted in different ways...

discuss..

Er no, not really.

The Requirements for Electrical Installations are just that, the requirements, and not open to interpretation.

How you comply with those with requirements is up to you and in some cases this might come down to how good your understanding of English is.

Where the diffciulty comes in is because most don't ever actually read the regs before getting into arguments over them!

 

[FingRinal]

It's not hard to memorize the Zs values for 60898 mcbs but I simply scan, print and laminate the most useful bits - about half a dozen pages or so. One that I use a lot is the illustration of the Bathroom Zones and what it/isn't allowed. Saves a lot of time when trying to explain to a lippy lady that she can't have socket for her hairdryer 3 inches from the bath

I normally print the Zs tables print single sided so that I can jot down details on the back with felt tip. Simply wipe over for the next job.

 

[luminaire]

It's not hard to memorize the Zs values for 60898 mcbs but I simply scan, print and laminate the most useful bits - about half a dozen pages or so. One that I use a lot is the illustration of the Bathroom Zones and what it/isn't allowed. Saves a lot of time when trying to explain to a lippy lady that she can't have socket for her hairdryer 3 inches from the bath

I normally print the Zs tables print single sided so that I can jot down details on the back with felt tip. Simply wipe over for the next job.

That seems a good idea

 

[chr15_8]

i was told in class you work to the 17th form the 1st of july. sp the 30th june you work to the 16th.

im sure it says that in the regs book.

edit page 4 says installations desinged after the 30th june to be wired to the 17th edition.

even if the design of an installation was planned/designed before the 30th june it can still be wired to the 16th

 

[FingRinal]

The 16th and 17th are both now current. That is until 30th June. From 1st July, the 16th ceases and the 17th takes over.

After that date, installations already designed to the 16th can still be installed. It's easy to see why. Imagine a new shopping centre which commenced construction today. All the plans, design etc. would be in place and it would cost a fortune to halt the build whilst the electrical installation was revised, parts discarded and new ones sourced just to comply with the 17th.

I think the argument that such a situation applies to the average domestic property is a bit lame and ultimately invalid.

 

[grwms]

um.....tihnk it may be possible as im half way through a total gut job on my house....i.e half way through building a extension and half way through a re-wire, theres no way itll be finished before the end of june and as ive already bought the mk 12way split board its highly unlikely ill be wiring to the 17th edition regulations! even though ill prob rcd protect the bathroon for guilts sake.

 

[partpdoctor]

hi
it is worth mentioning that for some part "p"ers (kitchen fitters, builders and the like) that they are unable to sign for "design" WITHOUT the OSG as all the maths on cable calculations are done for them in this book.
I do hope the IEE get the new book out for july 1st as it could lead to a sticky situation, being part of a self-certing scheme and being unable to sign work off that they are certified to do

 

[lippylady]

One that I use a lot is the illustration of the Bathroom Zones and what it/isn't allowed. Saves a lot of time when trying to explain to a lippy lady that she can't have socket for her hairdryer 3 inches from the bath

With all due respect, my reading of section 601 is that we lippy ladies are not allowed to have a pistol grip hairdryer (the only kind worth having IMHO) _anywhere_ in the bathroom. [Possibly you can have one 3m away from your bath/shower [i.e. outside Zone 3] - but that's a _big_ bathroom...]. If you know differently, I'd love to hear about it.

FYI the reason we ladies get so lippy on this subject is that the hand held hairdryer is probably the most commonly used bathroom electrical appliance for women. And - unfortunately - blow-dried hair is generally considered required for most women to achieve a professional look if they work in an office environment. Curious though that the regulations have all sorts of loopholes for electric shavers for men.... Makes even the best of us lippy.

 

[conny]

@ lippylady!

 

[NotHimAgain]

lippylady wrote:

With all due respect, my reading of section 601 is that we lippy ladies are not allowed to have a pistol grip hairdryer (the only kind worth having IMHO) _anywhere_ in the bathroom. [Possibly you can have one 3m away from your bath/shower [i.e. outside Zone 3] - but that's a _big_ bathroom...]. If you know differently, I'd love to hear about it.

But we must take account of the fact that you may get an uncontrollable urge to drop said hair dryer into the bath when we are in it

(BTW - Don't try this at home - it probably wouldn't work )