18 month Plumbing nightmare still unresolved

[Richrara]

Hi, any help appreciated.
In Nov 2015 we had 8 new rads put in and piping replaced to rads, and buried in walls. 3 old rads were kept in kitchen and utility room).
The water then never got round the system properly (50% ish of rads worked at a time, including the old rads consistently. Which new rads did or didn't work changed depending on the day).
At the same time, the plumber who fitted them found it almost impossible to balance them when refilling the system, which is a tank system, not combi...with a 4 year old Worcester Bosch green star ri boiler.
We just lived with the problem of some not working, as I'd already paid him and couldn't get him back (foolish in hindsight, I realise).
One year on, the boiler started cutting out intermittently. I got another plumber in who we paid to unblock a pipe that was very blocked, and he replaced the pump. We then suddenly had ALL rads working for the first time ever, which suggests (?) the very blocked pipe that fed the pump was the problem causing only a few rads to work previously. Then two weeks later the problem of the boiler cutting out intermittently recurred. So the plumber powerflushed the system, and made it a closed vented system, also adding an expansion valve (which together solved the problem of balancing the system when it needed to be refilled...as he was also experiencing this problem when he first tried to refill it).
A week later, and the boiler is cutting out again. I bled all the rads, and noticed one upstairs has no water in it at all (and bleeding them has made no difference...other than the boiler now won't come on at all).
Does anyone have any suggestions of what it might be? The second plumber is now suggesting it's the return pipe. But if this was the case, wouldn't the issue of the boiler cutting out have happened long before now? There were no problems with the boiler cutting out til 3 weeks ago (prior to any work at all being done by the second plumber). Any help appreciated, as we're thousands down since having the rad 'upgrade', and now without any heating whatsoever.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Richrara]

Might also be worth noting that when I switch boiler on and off, it fires up and green light comes on fur around 20 secs, then light goes off...boiler gurgles for 30 seconds or so, then just stays off (blue light but no green light).

 

[twgas]

I've been retired for a couple of years now but if memory serves....there is a bleed point inside the boiler and i think the union elbow connectors at the bottom of the boiler are prone to blocking with magnetite

 

[endecotp]

made it a closed vented system

I think you mean UNvented, right?

one upstairs has no water in it at all (and bleeding them has made no difference...other than the boiler now won't come on at all).

After bleeding, did you refill the system via the filling loop that would have been fitted at the same time as the expansion vessel?

 

[Richrara]

Thanks twgas, I'm going to collate any advice to try get it sorted once and for all.

I think you mean UNvented, right?



After bleeding, did you refill the system via the filling loop that would have been fitted at the same time as the expansion vessel?

Nope..Didn't realise I had to, Or how to? Can you please advise how (and if I could mess anything up/make it worse as an inexperienced hand?).

 

[endecotp]

I think you need to get the person who converted it to unvented to come back and show you how to work it.
Somewhere you will have a new pressure gauge and a valve. After bleeding radiators you need to open the valve to increase the pressure back to the correct level.

 

[Richrara]

I think you need to get the person who converted it to unvented to come back and show you how to work it.
Somewhere you will have a new pressure gauge and a valve. After bleeding radiators you need to open the valve to increase the pressure back to the correct level.

Cheers Endecotp, it was just a small black valve on the pipe to the small tank he'd installed (repressurised it to 1 as per his instructions), and I re-bled them.
Boiler still wouldn't come on properly though; kicked in for 10 seconds or so then kicked back out.

We have have a BG plan; I knew they wouldn't cover anything unless they'd done the powerflush (gonna cancel the plan I think), but I got them out anyway to check the boiler in order to ensure that wasn't the cause. Typically, 20 minutes before the lad arrived the boiler kicked back in for the first time in 48 hours of having been left on constant. After a bit of sweetalking I got him to check the flow and return temperatures for me (other plumber was convinced it was to do with the return pipe, despite having not even checked the temperatures) and he confirmed they were OK. He detected lots of magnetite was still in the pipework around the pump - even though I'd had it powerflushed a few days earlier. I tried to get the other guy back to re-flush it but he didn't respond to my call or text - which is bad form in my book considering he'd been paid days earlier to clean out a system, that was left still very magnetic. Managed to get another plumber to cut the pipework out around the pump and replace it, on the advice of the BG lad. I saw inside the pipe after and it was pretty badly blocked still (not what I'd expect less than a week after a 'power flush'). Tonight the house has been far hotter than ever, and we have hot water again. I'm not totally convinced it's not going to happen again - as there's clearly still a lot of magnetite flowing around the system. My plan if the problem recurs is to ask the powerflush-plumber nicely, once more, to come back - sending him a picture of the blocked pipe, which I kept. If he won't then I think it's reasonable to pursue with trading standards or the likes, as I think it's fair to expect that if I pay £475 for a few hours work, I shouldn't be left with a gunged-up system.

Thanks for your advice chaps.

 

[endecotp]

Do you have a magnetic filter?

 

[Richrara]

Yes, a magnaclean. Would that normally be cleaned as part of a flush? The plumber who cut out the piping yesterday cleaned it out for me as it was thick with gunge.

 

[endecotp]

It would normally be cleaned as often as necessary. Do it yourself.

 

[Agile]

Yes, a magnaclean. Would that normally be cleaned as part of a flush? The plumber who cut out the piping yesterday cleaned it out for me as it was thick with gunge.

I am amazed at how badly your power flush guy did the job.

Not cleaning the Magnaclean during a powerflush is criminal in my view.

Depending on what chemicals he used, I will agree that even a power flush will not always remove all coatings on pipework. That's where the best chemicals for the job come in.

His was also a rather more expensive job too. I normally quote about £350 over the phone and get very few takers so presumably others are doing it cheaper.

Tony

 

[Richrara]

Cheers Tony. Yeah he was a friendly chap, but that ain't going to get my heating working! So far, cutting that bit of pipe out around the pump and replacing it has worked; which is amazing that three other plumbers didn't spot it. Pee'd off about the powerflush...no surprise he was chasing me to quickly put a review on mybuilder, before it stopped working again!

 

[Richrara]

Five days since the pipe around the pump was replaced, the system has stopped working again (no hot water or heating). The water doesn't appear to be getting to the boiler, again. Bearing in mind I know little about plumbing, the history of what is happening suggests it is gunge in the system - due to the fact that every time we have something unblocked, it works; then a few days later it stops working again. Having paid for a Powerflush just over a week ago (and finding a pipe was blocked less than three days later and the magnaclean was still totally gunged up), can anyone advise what might be the next best course of action? I have tried to contact the plumber who did the powerflush on three occasions, and he is ignoring my calls/messages.

 

[endecotp]

Clean out the magnetic filter.

 

[Agile]

An expensive powerflush, then he ignores your calls!

Usually those quote sites produce people who give very cheap prices.

I have used them myself for building/garden/tree work.

Only did one plumbing job through one of those sites and that turned out to be a customer who still wanted "a little extra".

Tony