2 things I've always wondered with euro cylinder locks..

[cjard]

1) is it intentional that the keys are just a little bit too long, and if you leave one in one side of the lock, you can't get a key into the other side of the lock?

2) in relation to the above, if I nibble a small amount off the ends of a key pair, will they then both fit in either side of the barrel simultaneously?

Thanks!
CJ

 

[crank39]

Never put both keys in a euro cylinder, you'll throw the cam out of sync and the key cannot be removed when at vertical position

 

[cjard]

I understand what you mean; it would be possible to arrange this situation:

Insert one key (e.g. Inside), turn it 180 degrees
Insert the other key (e.g. Outside), turn it the remaining 180 degrees, locking the door
But now you're outside and your outside key won't come out of the lock

Surely this is easy to remedy; don't turn the inside key half way!

I can't see how it is impossible to undo the situation, providing you have two keys. It might involve opening the door again and turning the inside key so it's the right way up, but should be impossible to execute an irreversible set of operations that sees the cam stuck at 11 o'clock and no keys in the lock.

Why don't the thumbturny knob type locks suffer this? It can surely only be because the knob cannot be removed and lost.. though they must also have some mechanism that allows the key to still work if the knob has been turned to some off angle, like 90 degrees?

 

[endecotp]

Why don't the thumbturny knob type locks suffer this? It can surely only be because the knob cannot be removed and lost.. though they must also have some mechanism that allows the key to still work if the knob has been turned to some off angle, like 90 degrees?

No, my ABS thumbturns can't be worked from the outside if the knob is left at an intermediate position; the key doesn't insert fully.
Others may work differently.

 

[Bungled]

Never put both keys in a euro cylinder, you'll throw the cam out of sync and the key cannot be removed when at vertical position

Unless the cylinder has a key override function, which enables fto allow operation even if the key has been left in the other side. This is an optional extra on more expensive cylinders (e.g. Kaba), but fitted as standard on Abus E90 and Cisa Astral S cylinders. (Cisa calls this function a clutch cam.)

Why don't the thumbturny knob type locks suffer this?

Because they come fitted with key override as standard.

 

[Bungled]

my ABS thumbturns can't be worked from the outside if the knob is left at an intermediate position; the key doesn't insert fully.
Others may work differently.

I believe this is unique to ABS and Ultion, designed to make their thumbturns more secure.

Other thumbturn cylinders work differently and are more easily bypassed.

 

[Brigade77]

1) is it intentional that the keys are just a little bit too long, and if you leave one in one side of the lock, you can't get a key into the other side of the lock?

Yes. This is a feature designed into the lock. The euro cylinder was designed primarily as an answer to a very serious security problem with its predecessors.

2) in relation to the above, if I nibble a small amount off the ends of a key pair, will they then both fit in either side of the barrel simultaneously?

Thanks!
CJ

Why are you asking the internets & not trying it out for yourself? It would cost you approx £7.50 at retail prices.

 

[Mottie]

When we lock our front door from the inside, as long as you pull the key approximately halfway out from the inside, you can still unlock the door with another key from the outside. That's what we used to have to do when we locked up and went to bed when the kids were still out. Don't like locking the door and removing the key in case we need to get out in a hurry if, say, there was a fire. You can lock it from the outside the same way. Again, I do this when I go to work very early and my wife is still in bed as with the door not being locked properly, turning the handle from outside will half unlock the door, enough to get a crowbar between the door and frame to force the door open.

I always tell my mother (who lives alone) to do the same as we cannot get in if we needed to in an emergency.

 

[Bungled]

Motman, why not replace your mother's lock cylinder with one that has a key override function?

Yes. This is a feature designed into the lock. The euro cylinder was designed primarily as an answer to a very serious security problem with its predecessors.

No!

Euro cylinders have had two security problems highlighted in the media. Firstly, there was a storm in a teacup about lock bumping, but I've never heard anyone report burglars actually using this technique in real life. Also, more expensive cylinders are generally bump-resistant now; you get what you pay for.

Secondly, there was a hullabaloo about lock snapping. This seems to be a real issue, hence the emergence of anti-snap cylinders. However, neither the key nor its length has anything to do with snap resistance

1) is it intentional that the keys are just a little bit too long, and if you leave one in one side of the lock, you can't get a key into the other side of the lock?

2) in relation to the above, if I nibble a small amount off the ends of a key pair, will they then both fit in either side of the barrel simultaneously?

Length doesn't matter (that's what I tell my wife ). The key doesn't extend past the cam; in this see-though lock cylinder, you can see the black cam in the middle. So nibbling off the ends of a key makes no difference. Instead, you need to replace the cylinder with one that has key override like the Cisa Astral S or Abus E90.

 

[cjard]

I thought the cam had a hole right through it, and when inserted fully, the key extends past the half way point, hence the reason why you cannot get a key into the other side of the lock/why shortening the key would allow both to fit?

 

[Mottie]

Mine must have a hole right through it as I get a draught through it when it's windy. Also, if the inside key is upright and fully inserted, pushing another key in from outside pushes the inner key through. You cannot do that if the inner key is turned even slightly - that's why we pull the inner key slightly backwards.

 

[Bungled]

if the inside key is upright and fully inserted, pushing another key in from outside pushes the inner key through.

In that case, wouldn't the length of a key need to vary according to the length of the cylinder? E.g. a 30/30 cylinder's key would be too short for this to work in a 50/50 cylinder However, keys are the same size irrespective of cylinder length

Any lockies on here?