A few questions - if anybody gets a chance

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I have a few 'electrical theory' questions which i would love somebody to answer if they got the chance. Obviously, i know actually doing some of this would be dangerous, i not thinking of trying it!

What would happen if i were to cut the electricity company's neutral at the meter and connect my neutral to a ground rod instead, just wondering, as my meter shows 230v or so between phase/earth.

Why does a neutral/earth short trip an rcd?

MB said here before that shorting out the main fuse in my house (example) could damage my neighbours property due to the fact that the fuse is a 'slow blow type' Could somebody explain this to me.

ban-all-sheds said:
And the PSSC of the incoming supply is.....?
What is PSSC

Finally, BR spoke of AFT correction lately, i cant just find the post, What is this?
 
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c.k. said:
Why does a neutral/earth short trip an rcd?

The current flowing through both the live and neutral wires should be the same. When the neutral touches the earth the current is diverted down the earth wire away from the RCD's neutral terminal block. The RCD detects this imbalance and it trips.
 
c.k. said:
my meter shows 230v or so between phase/earth.

The standard voltage in the UK now is 230V +10% -10% (was -6% until January 2003). It was harmonised across the EU back in 1995, the rest of them were on 220V.

So provided you are showing between 207V and 253V between phase and neutral you are within tolerances.

The potential difference between neutral and earth should be zero or certainly very close. This is why earth is now provided by the supply rather than an earth rod: with the latter method you can have a potential between earth and neutral.
 
Just to expand on the comments above, It is called Neutral because it is the NEUTRAL point of a three phase STAR connected Alternator set.

For safety, the UK also connect this neutral point to Earth at the source of the energy. This is expanded in some supply types to give what is called Multiple Earth Points.

Neutral and Earth are NOT the same, as I have said in a different thread, the Earth connection of the Neutral point is designed to reduce the potential difference of this point to as near to that of the Earth as possible, in reality this can be anywhere between 0 and 49V. If it hits 50V RCD's will disconnect the supply.

If the Alternator and supply infra-structure where not connected to earth in this way, then the potential difference between the Neutral conductor and Earth would be the same as the Phase to Neutral potential difference, ie, 230V.

From this statement you will see that connecting your neutral to Earth will create an inherently dangerous situation.

I seriously hope this is just a theory question, there is nothing to be gained by this action except putting lives at risk.

There are actually THREE reasons why a Neutral Earth connection will trip an RCD. The most common known has been stated above, however there are two other ways in which an RCD can detect a fault and disconnect the supply.

Firstly, the toroid of soft Iron that coils are wrapped around for the Phase and Neutral conductors are not alone, the earth also has such a coil. This coil will instantly detect, via magnetic effects, any voltage above 50Vac/dc on the Earth line, it does this via a magnetometer coil mounted inside the torus of the RCD.

Secondly, the RCD sensing coil will "know" that the supply is off or on, the electronics know the potential difference between the Neutral and true earth. The electronics constantly monitor the PD between the two, should that suddenly change to zero within 0.02 seconds, the RCD will disconnect the supply.

An RCD is a clever bit of kit, the ones with little white tails of wire connected to them are DC sensing RCD's, these constantly monitor the Potential of the earth connection and should it change rapidly or increase above a factory set level for a given current rating, then it will disconnect the supply.

It is for this reason that putting any RCD, but especially the DC sensing type, on any circuit containing large inductive loads or electronic equipment is likely to cause nuisance tripping of the device as both are notorious for "backfeeding" a dc voltage onto the Earth of the circuit, normally via the body of the machine or piece of equipment.

To answer the other question, PSSC, also called PSC or PSCC is the Prospective Short Circuit Current

Simply stated, this is the maximum amount of current that will flow through a circuit in the event of a short circuit before the installed protective device will operate and disconnect the supply.

For the supply coming into your house this can be in the 10kA to 20kA range, depending on how the local supply grid is connected up and the ratinf of the nearest transformer substation that has protective devices installed. It is very unlikley you would cause one of these to operate in the event of a fault, unless you damaged the cable before your service head, effectively between your supply and the transformer. Even then it is unlikely they will operate. They have surge capabilities which for a split second can handle currents many times their nominal rating, in this time the current flowing would vapourise any metals it past through and effectively disconnect the short from the circuit.
 
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FWL_Engineer said:
If it hits 50V RCD's will disconnect the supply.

I was going to write that but couldn't remember where I had read it and thought "nah, if I write that FWL will debunk it!". D'oh! I also thought that the cause to effect time for an RCD was 0.4 seconds max, does this mean that most work in 0.02s and thus surpass the regs?

Just a question, I assume you are an electrical engineer rather than an electrician FWL? A lot of the theory you go into seems pretty detailed!
 
Adam, the DISCONNECTION time for a circuit at 230V is 0.4 seconds to comply with the Regs. However nearly all modern devices will operate faster than this, it all depends on how the circuit has been designed and installed..or modified. This takes careful working out ahead of just slinging it in.

The 0.02 seconds in an RCD generally only applies to the rate of change between the PD of the Neutral and earth conductors, however in practise most RCD will operate this quick as they only have one trigger mechanism, but three fingers on it..so to speak.

Yes I am an Engineer. I learnt the trade as a fully JIB indentured Apprentice Electrician gaining C&G236 (as it was then) Parts one and two, I then went on and did the C course (technician) and later continued my studies to gain an HNC in Electrical Engineering. I am an Associate member of the IEE (NOT an MIEE), I am currently going down the road of achieving CEng status, which for me is proving convoluted as I work for myself in effect as I run a Contractors currently employing 23 Electricians, 2 Graduate Engineers and a CEng directly, plus almost 25 Self Employed Electricians and Mates via the CIS system.

I have ambitions to do an MEng (Electrical) within the next 10 years.
 
When you say MEng Electrical - do you mean Electrical and Electronic Engineering? (That was my degree)
 
Kimba said:
When you say MEng Electrical - do you mean Electrical and Electronic Engineering? (That was my degree)

No, I mean a proper degree :D Nah, only joking.

I actually mean an MEng (Electrical) not an MEng (Electronic and Electrical)
 
Amusingly enough, one of my old flatmates at uni (and now a colleague, small world) did an MEng Electronic and Electrical Engineering and he can't even wire a plug! :LOL:

Going for Chartered status could be difficult if you don't work under someone else. My company has chartership schemes under IMechE and IEE and a lot of the accreditation process seems to involve mentoring. Plus you already know more about Elec. Eng than your mentor would, so how does that count as industry training? :LOL:

I aim to do start earning my chartership with the IoP (Institute of Physics) in a year or two. I have all of my work records for the last 2 years so hopefully shouldn't take too long... should have started on it 2 years ago but I am hoping to apply Grolsch theory to this one :D
 
AdamW said:
Amusingly enough, one of my old flatmates at uni (and now a colleague, small world) did an MEng Electronic and Electrical Engineering and he can't even wire a plug! :LOL:

Sadly I don't find that remotely supprising, and yet he could probably use Maxwell's equations design a perfect electro mag device...... Ah well :)

I am an MIEE, and working towards being chartered, so have my qualifications in both areas. They are totally different thou, that is for sure.
 
And I'm allowed to put the letters C.Eng after my name, on account of being a Member of the British Computer Society, and regarded as a software engineer. It's a funny old world.

I don't like doing it, because I think it debases the worth of "real" engineers (can you imagine a car, or a plane, or a bridge designed by people as good at their jobs as Microsoft programmers are at theirs?), but it does mean I can sign friends' passport applications.
 
You think that CEng for a Software Engineer is daft: I am a physicist yet with relevant experience I can apply for CEng status through the Institute of Physics! I am more likely to apply for the new CSci as my work involves both physics and engineering.

Perhaps we should go for the German system, where engineers and scientists have a specific title, just as doctors do over here? Over there if you are Engineer Smith, for example, your wife gets called Mrs Engineer Smith.
 
AdamW said:
You think that CEng for a Software Engineer is daft: I am a physicist yet with relevant experience I can apply for CEng status through the Institute of Physics! I am more likely to apply for the new CSci as my work involves both physics and engineering.

Perhaps we should go for the German system, where engineers and scientists have a specific title, just as doctors do over here? Over there if you are Engineer Smith, for example, your wife gets called Mrs Engineer Smith.

The problem with that system is that if you work in the sewers you would be Sh*te Engineer Smith :)

Seriously though, I am not for putting letters after my name, it is showing off to a certain degree.

I could list myself as James ******** BSc. FBIS. MBA, but I don't bother.

Before the questions fly.

BSc....Astronomy..my passion :)
FBIS....Fellow of the British Interplanetary Society
MBA... I have a Masters in Business Administration

My Grandfather (Paternal) had loads of letters after his name, about 20 of the blooming things, and it always made me laugh at official functions when he was introduced as...

General Sir bla bla KCG,KCB,DSO.MM.MC.GM.and several others..took for ever to introduce the man...So assenine too. I know that John hated it to.
 
The letters after my name funnily enough spell my surname......hows that for coincidence....... :unsure:
 

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