a radial, a ring, it's a kitchen thing!

[davy_owen_88]

All MK socket-outlets are manufactured to comply with BS1363 part 2: 1995 and are rated at 13A per unit. Double socket-outlets have been manufactured and tested to exceed this rating by margin that allows electrical safety and reduces the risk of heat and mechanical damage to components due to overloading. It should be noted that BS1363 part 2: 1995 does not allow double sockets to operate at twice the permissable maximum loading and it should be remembered that double socket-outlets are not manufactured to be able to withstand a 26A load for sustained periods of time.

Research by ourselves and third party organisations has shown that all MK double sockets can safely withstand a continuous load of 19.5A for an indefinite period. Increasing the load slightly will begin to cause heat and mechanical stresses on the components in a relatively short period. Testing showed that a load of 22.3A was sufficient to cause heat stress that would cause a browning of the faceplates and sufficient heat to cause insulation damage to cable cores. A load of 24A for 43 hours was sufficient to cause significant heat damage to the material in which the socket-oulet was situated and within 75 hours sufficient to cause significant damage that would lead to the very real potential of fire.

Joe, did you not read this?! In which case read it again... and again, and then stop going on about it.

 

[joe-90]

It's wrong. We have a fail safe system. Failing safe isn't catching fire and burning the house down.

 

[ricicle]

Joe-90 why don't you just **** off and go and annoy someone else.All you seem to want to do is look for trivial things to argue about.If you are the know all I suggest we leave you to answer all the queries on here and see how far the Forum goes

 

[Softus]

It's wrong. We have a fail safe system. Failing safe isn't catching fire and burning the house down.

This idea of a fail-safe system appears to be something you've dreamed up and are pretending is a law or regulation.

The fact is that even safe electrical installations are capable of overheating and causing a fire. It can, and does, happen.

The whole purpose of designing an installation is to minimise the risk of overheating, but there is no such thing as a workable design than can stop naive people, or stupid people, or reckless people, from doing naive, stupid or reckless things.

I can't think of a word that suitably describes your misunderstanding of electrical installations, and of cable and accessory ratings, except to say that at least you're consistent.

_____________
PS, I have a flow switch diverter solenoid that has stopped dongling - would you recommend that I lubricate it or buy a new one?

 

[securespark]

joe, I think you've reached the end of the line.

Mk have put a lot of effort into their research into this matter. If you want to believe that they're wrong, that's your perogative, just don't waste your breath here.

 

[ricicle]

Mk have put a lot of effort into their research into this matter. If you want to believe that they're wrong, that's your perogative, just don't waste your breath here.

He also doubts the ability of the IEE

 

[bernardgreen]

Oh dear, getting all hot and bothered are we? Take a 13 amp fuse and crack it open. Take a look at the thickness of the wire.

Crack open a socket and look at the bus-bar.

Which of those will handle the heavier current?

And then look at the cross section of the areas of contact between the metal of the pin and the metal of the sprung contact in the socket.

THAT is the main limiting factor as there is a contact resistance there which generates a bit of heat.

Exactly my point Bernard. Both single and double sockets use the same mechanism, therefore, if you can run one of the sockets at 13 amps then common sense tells you that you can run two as the mechanism and contact resistance is identical. Ambient temperature doesn't come into the equation. That is why they are both rated at 13 amps. That is why a triple socket is fused and a double is not. A double is designed ( or should be) to handle the load.

Joe.

Stop and think before you answer this.

If the double socket had two sets of terminals at the back and these had to be wired as if they were two individual sockets then both could provide 13 amps to the plugs. BUT they are NOT supplied with two sets of terminals, there is only one set. That is the other weak point, the clamp of cable to terminal and that is often where a double socket with more than 20 amps total load will have failed. The insulation melts of the wire and other nasty things happen.

Note MK say 20 amps and the GPO down rated to 9 amps max per plug. 9 + 9 =18 which is 2 amps below maximum for the double socket.

 

[bernardgreen]

It's wrong. We have a fail safe system. Failing safe isn't catching fire and burning the house down.

We do NOT have a fail safe system. END

 

[securespark]

Is my car failsafe?

If I ask it to corner at 95mph, will it let me, or will safety systems kick in to prevent me from abusing the equipment at my disposal?

 

[masona]

surely if a double socket can only take 13 amps we should only use 6 amp fuses if both sockets are used to plug appliances in

This has always been my argument, I still can't get my head round this.

What the point of having 13 amp maximum rating inside the double socket?!!!!

Let see it another way, the majorities of the population including children see a double socket so they will plug anything in it regardless what the current load is. Even there was a warning on the front cover socket, they will still not understand it. I have to agreed the double socket should be design to take 26 amp.

Doesn't matter what the regs is, where is the warning?

 

[davy_owen_88]

 

[masona]

What is stupid about it

 

[davy_owen_88]

What is stupid about it?

The 4 previous pages arguing about it...

It's already been discussed that a double socket is suitable for 13A but more than 13A can be drawn from it. There's no need for a warning as the chances of 2 high power appliances being plugged into the same double socket and used at the same time is very slim in every room except for the kitchen. Only in the kitchen is it really a problem and a well designed and installed circuit removes the issue.

Davy

 

[ColJack]

a round section cable with a square section contact point ( screw down or clamp type) has limited contact area..

the recommended tightening torque flattens the cable somewhat but still has limited area.

this is why rings are better ( more cable area under the screw ) or why most good eletcricians will double the cable end over in the terminal...

 

[bernardgreen]

There's no need for a warning as the chances of 2 high power appliances being plugged into the same double socket and used at the same time is very slim in every room except for the kitchen. Only in the kitchen is it really a problem and a well designed and installed circuit removes the issue.

Davy

Which is why one electrician I knew would only put singles in a kitchen.

I can also recall from childhood being taught the limitations of power from the sockets. People just take power for granted today..