adding lights to a plug socket?

[nigelnorris]

Hi, after a recent burglary I went into B&Q and bought a couple of 120 watt halogen floodlights to mount to an external wall and light up my relatively small back yard.

Plan is to wall mount them, drill into the house through a wall and find some electricity inside to wire them up to. Upstairs landing, very near to where the cable could be fed into the house, there is a three pin socket I use once in a blue moon to plug the vacuum cleaner into.

Can I just take the front off that, shove a cable into the holes along with the mains cable coming in, run that to a light switch which I could wall mount nearby, then run a cable from that through the wall to the outside lamps? Distance between the existing switch and the new light switch would be no more than about three feet.

If that's not allowed can I just stick a three pin plug onto the end of the cable attached to the lights and plug them into the existing socket just like any other electrical appliance?

Many thanks.

 

[SimonH2]

Yes you could pick up power from the sockets - provided the socket you plan to spur off isn't already itself a spur. You will need a "Fused Connection Unit" (aka Fused Spur). Failing that, yes you could fit a plug and plug it in.

Bear in mind you will need to comply with regulations - and that may mean the circuit needs upgrading to RCD protection.

Also, this is notifiable work. You need to either have it done by an electrician who is a member of an approved scheme and can self-notify through his scheme. Or you need to notify your Local Authority Building Control before you start and pay their fees. Usually it's cheaper to employ someone for a small job like this.

 

[nigelnorris]

Thanks! Would I need to be concerned with regulations if I was just putting a plug on and treating them as an appliance?

In fact I've just had a further though, if I simply take off the 3 pin front plate and replace it with a light switch and feed that outside does that then need any notice or concern for regulations?

 

[SimonH2]

Thanks! Would I need to be concerned with regulations if I was just putting a plug on and treating them as an appliance?

It's getting slightly into a grey area, but I think it would be hard to argue that fixed security lights were a portable appliance.

In fact I've just had a further though, if I simply take off the 3 pin front plate and replace it with a light switch and feed that outside does that then need any notice or concern for regulations?

It makes no difference to the regulations - you are still required to abide by them and notify where appropriate.
However it would be a dangerous installation as you would then have some low power devices, with low current rating cable, fed from a circuit with a 30A fuse or 32A circuit breaker. It would be very easy for a fault to cause the under-rated cable to start a fire - and you might find your insurer refused to pay out when they found out it was your illegal and dangerous addition that caused the fire.

 

[nigelnorris]

There's no way I'd consider doing anything illegal or potentially dangerous. Thanks for your advice and explanation, it helps to understand why something can't be done.

 

[nigelnorris]

I'm really grateful but just to flog this particular horse to death, there's one thing I still don't quite get. I understand the risks of trying to wire it directly but if I were to stick a plug on it and fit a 3 amp fuse in the plug, is there anything at all that could go wrong? Is there any practical reason not to?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm really grateful but just to flog this particular horse to death, there's one thing I still don't quite get. I understand the risks of trying to wire it directly but if I were to stick a plug on it and fit a 3 amp fuse in the plug, is there anything at all that could go wrong? Is there any practical reason not to?

Not electrically.

It's just that it has been argued and advertised on some company products that, because something is plugged in, it is therefore not fixed and so avoids the requirement to notify.

In other words, they argue that just having a plug legalises what would be illegal.
It's up to you.


By the way, horses very rarely die on this forum.

 

[securespark]

Is it notifiable?

 

[JohnW2]

Is it notifiable?

'Grey area', I suspect, depending upon the exact circumstances. There is a body of opinion that if there is no 'outdoor wiring' (i.e. if cable goes straight through wall into an exterior light), then it would not be notifiable - even if many think that is contrary to the spirit of making all 'outdoor electrics' notifiable. In any event, in the case we're considering, there are two lights, and no indication yet that it would necessarily be possible to go straight through the wall even into one of them, so I suspect that there may well be some 'external wriring' involved, hence notifiable.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

Well if the OP could wire each light, with it's own cable, back to <something> indoors - ie there are no external connections/junction boxes then it is probably "just" doable without notifying. But as you say, hardly in the spirit of the rules, but hey, grey areas are there to explore right

So back to the OP.
If you can bring both cables directly inside and join them in a suitable junction box*, and then connect them with a plug into a socket - then you might consider that as not notifiable. Your call on that.
Whether that extends to replacing the single socket with an FCU and wiring the lights into that, well that's pushing the boundaries even more.
* It needs to provide strain relief for the cables, and either be accessible for inspection or use maintenance free terminals.

The key things is to look at Schedule 4 of the Building Regs 2010. Start at the top of the list and work down. If you find a statement which applies to the work you are doing and which says it's not notifiable, then it isn't notifiable and you can stop going down the list; if you reach the bottom of the list without finding anything which applies to your proposed work, then it is notifiable.

 

[rjm2k]

Is it notifiable?

'Grey area', I suspect, depending upon the exact circumstances. There is a body of opinion that if there is no 'outdoor wiring' (i.e. if cable goes straight through wall into an exterior light), then it would not be notifiable - even if many think that is contrary to the spirit of making all 'outdoor electrics' notifiable. In any event, in the case we're considering, there are two lights, and no indication yet that it would necessarily be possible to go straight through the wall even into one of them, so I suspect that there may well be some 'external wriring' involved, hence notifiable.

Kind Regards, John

I read something the other day (can't remember if it was in some instructions that came with a product or actual building regs that suggested outdoor lighting was not notifiable, but an outdoor socket (which can have further things plugged into it and therefore must be RCD protected) was.

Bit daft IMHO as a layperson since it's easy to buy an outdoor socket with RCD protection built in, and apparently many items you would plug into an outdoor socket such as hedge trimmers are double insulated anyway.

Edit: Here you go, Part P page 9

View media item 49434
OTT IMHO, it should say that as per outdoor lights if there is no exposed wire AND it's an RCD socket then it's not notifiable, but then the Council wouldn't get their fee.

 

[JohnW2]

Is it notifiable?

'Grey area', I suspect, depending upon the exact circumstances.

I read something the other day (can't remember if it was in some instructions that came with a product or actual building regs that suggested outdoor lighting was not notifiable, but an outdoor socket (which can have further things plugged into it and therefore must be RCD protected) was. .... Edit: Here you go, Part P page 9

The problem there is that you are quoting Approved Document P (which is guidance, not law), rather than Part P itself (law) or the associated Schedule 4 of the Building Regs (also law). In other words, Approved Document P is just providing one interpretation of the law - hence the 'grey area'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Here you go, Part P page 9

View media item 49434

That's not Part P.

This is Part P:

 

[JohnW2]

<a little too slowly>!

Kind Regards, John

 

[rjm2k]

That's really helpful of the Government to issue Approved documents with Part P written all over, making people think that's all they need to know.