Alpha 240P
- Thread starter Steven Barry
- Start date
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Steven Barry said:Paul,
B&Q have got a similiar sludge treatment, would you just recommend Sentinel or would the B&Q one be suffice.
Ferroquest is particularly aggressive, and I sense such a need in your case.
Sorry -just a real quickie,
I bought the ferroquest and inhibitor and have been advised - I think by yourself as well, that it is best to remove the heating heat exchanger as it will enable a better concentration of acid.
My dad's friend is convinced that the blockage is probably in the hot tap heat exchanger and not the heating, -what do you think?
-I'm going to take off the heating heat exchanger on Sat and do that first - I have heard that the hot tap heat exchanger is difficult -is that correct.
-When i changed the diverter valve things were fine though, -is it possible for the muck to flow from heating to hot water -i think the answer is no.
-but if i turn the diverter valve to just hot water (not heating) the problem still occurs???
- I checked the main inlet filter and it seemed okay.
Thankyou very much
I bought the ferroquest and inhibitor and have been advised - I think by yourself as well, that it is best to remove the heating heat exchanger as it will enable a better concentration of acid.
My dad's friend is convinced that the blockage is probably in the hot tap heat exchanger and not the heating, -what do you think?
-I'm going to take off the heating heat exchanger on Sat and do that first - I have heard that the hot tap heat exchanger is difficult -is that correct.
-When i changed the diverter valve things were fine though, -is it possible for the muck to flow from heating to hot water -i think the answer is no.
-but if i turn the diverter valve to just hot water (not heating) the problem still occurs???
- I checked the main inlet filter and it seemed okay.
Thankyou very much
Have you checked the filter on the heating return connection is clean?
If this is blocked the radiators will be slow to heat and the aeroplane noise may emanate from the bypass valve due to reduced flow around the heating circuit.
Have you felt the temperature across the plate exchanger?
With the hot tap fully open place your hands on the flow and return pipework - a blocked plate exchanger is easily diagnosed as there will be a large difference in temperature.
A common problem with the water cycling hot /cold is a faulty flow thermister. These are in a dry pocket so are cheap and easy to change.
If this is blocked the radiators will be slow to heat and the aeroplane noise may emanate from the bypass valve due to reduced flow around the heating circuit.
Have you felt the temperature across the plate exchanger?
With the hot tap fully open place your hands on the flow and return pipework - a blocked plate exchanger is easily diagnosed as there will be a large difference in temperature.
A common problem with the water cycling hot /cold is a faulty flow thermister. These are in a dry pocket so are cheap and easy to change.
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Paul,
I cleaned out the two heat exchangers, they both seemed to be in good shape, water was flowing in and out quite well.
I am still getting the whirring sound and the hot water is still cycling.
Any other ideas????, thermocouple?, -this boiler will be the death of me in the near future!
Any further suggestions please.
I cleaned out the two heat exchangers, they both seemed to be in good shape, water was flowing in and out quite well.
I am still getting the whirring sound and the hot water is still cycling.
Any other ideas????, thermocouple?, -this boiler will be the death of me in the near future!
Any further suggestions please.
Thermistor(s) as above. The Primary one can get covered in gunge. Wet pocket, that one. Worth changing both
Gas rate can drift high over a period.
Put hot taps on full. time how long meter takes to do one revolution/1 cu ft, and we'll do the sums. (Of the order of 36 seconds, but measure it).
What did you do to clean the HW heat exchanger?
Gas rate can drift high over a period.
Put hot taps on full. time how long meter takes to do one revolution/1 cu ft, and we'll do the sums. (Of the order of 36 seconds, but measure it).
What did you do to clean the HW heat exchanger?
I cleaned out the heat exchanger with some sentinel -limescale remover.
Since i have cleaned it out the cycling has increased but i have noticed that the red icon (gas ignition light) turns on and once it goes out the light starts flashing then the gas drops down and the light comes back on, while i have the hot tap and / or heating on.
Looking through the manual this indicates a dodgy air pressure switch. Can these go? - is there a way of testing it.
Thankyou
Since i have cleaned it out the cycling has increased but i have noticed that the red icon (gas ignition light) turns on and once it goes out the light starts flashing then the gas drops down and the light comes back on, while i have the hot tap and / or heating on.
Looking through the manual this indicates a dodgy air pressure switch. Can these go? - is there a way of testing it.
Thankyou
Yes they can but so can the fan get tired, If I were in front of it I would put the flue gas analyser to sense boiler performance and electronic manometer to measure fan pressure, compare the two against the microswitch details and what I know about good flue gas performance, which would help me in deciding whether it is the fan or the microswitch. Many fans seem to go round good, but are still the fualt. On the whole microswitches go bad properly, an intermitent fault of this type is more often the fan getting to weak to raise sufficient puff to trigger the microswitch some of the time.
I have found that a microswitch rated at around 1mBar will still switch, though more slowly, at 1/2 a millibar. A fan which shoule produce 1mBar wouldn't sound feel or look noticeably off colour at 1/2 a millibar.
The sensing pneumatics have to be checked out also for dust cobwebs pinholes cracks.
The flue has to be dissassembled checked and cleaned, seal checked.
I have found that a microswitch rated at around 1mBar will still switch, though more slowly, at 1/2 a millibar. A fan which shoule produce 1mBar wouldn't sound feel or look noticeably off colour at 1/2 a millibar.
The sensing pneumatics have to be checked out also for dust cobwebs pinholes cracks.
The flue has to be dissassembled checked and cleaned, seal checked.
Paul,
Hey Paul you are getting too technical now - i am just a mere simpleton
I have tested the pressure switch and it seems fine,
if i remove the positive tube (not from the switch the other end), the burner goes down -when i blow in the pipe the burner goes high.
If i remove the negative pipe the burner goes down -if i suck the burner
goes high.
I also tested the fan and it seems to run quite freely (with no supply), but a noise does seem to emanate from there.
I think the fan is on it's way out and is slowing down due to the cover being
on, the added heat makes it expand possibly.
What do you think mate.
Thankyou
Hey Paul you are getting too technical now - i am just a mere simpleton
I have tested the pressure switch and it seems fine,
if i remove the positive tube (not from the switch the other end), the burner goes down -when i blow in the pipe the burner goes high.
If i remove the negative pipe the burner goes down -if i suck the burner
goes high.
I also tested the fan and it seems to run quite freely (with no supply), but a noise does seem to emanate from there.
I think the fan is on it's way out and is slowing down due to the cover being
on, the added heat makes it expand possibly.
What do you think mate.
Thankyou
The fan always works better with the casing seal broken, it's a standard test on older boilers to crack the casing seal and then see if it fires.
Like I said as they get olders fans lose their vigor, if the pcb will wait long enough for the aps a 1/2 strength fan goes undetected. By the time the boiler is locking out due to it the fan is in it's 80's.
Lubricating the bearings lifts them back into their 60's but they very quickly age again. In most cases it isn't actually the bearings that are causing the poor performance, I have pondered this. What I think happens is the windings get more resistance when they are hot and they get more hot as their resistance goes up, some of the enamel melts minor shorts occur drawing current to ground which contributes nothing to the efficacy of the fan, but adds to the heat ergo resistance. I think this is the ageing cycle of the fan motor. Couple that with tired bearings and imbalance caused by the body of a dead moth taking a merrigoround trip on the hamsters wheel.
Yep you probably need a new fan. I would prove it with my analyser you'll just have to make an educated guess.
Find out what a new fan costs, and then phone CET (google CET fan and they'll be first page listed) who put brand spanking new motors and bearings onto your own cowl or one they have in stock in exchange for the one you have there for about half price.
Like I said as they get olders fans lose their vigor, if the pcb will wait long enough for the aps a 1/2 strength fan goes undetected. By the time the boiler is locking out due to it the fan is in it's 80's.
Lubricating the bearings lifts them back into their 60's but they very quickly age again. In most cases it isn't actually the bearings that are causing the poor performance, I have pondered this. What I think happens is the windings get more resistance when they are hot and they get more hot as their resistance goes up, some of the enamel melts minor shorts occur drawing current to ground which contributes nothing to the efficacy of the fan, but adds to the heat ergo resistance. I think this is the ageing cycle of the fan motor. Couple that with tired bearings and imbalance caused by the body of a dead moth taking a merrigoround trip on the hamsters wheel.
Yep you probably need a new fan. I would prove it with my analyser you'll just have to make an educated guess.
Find out what a new fan costs, and then phone CET (google CET fan and they'll be first page listed) who put brand spanking new motors and bearings onto your own cowl or one they have in stock in exchange for the one you have there for about half price.
Paul,
I will call them tomorrow - I checked the website and there was no listing for an alpha fan.
One the cautious side, -the pilot light seems to blow out every so often, -i assume the simple answer is because the cover is off, - more turbulent airflow.
Cheers
I will call them tomorrow - I checked the website and there was no listing for an alpha fan.
One the cautious side, -the pilot light seems to blow out every so often, -i assume the simple answer is because the cover is off, - more turbulent airflow.
Cheers
Boiler shouldn't be used with cover off POC can get into the room.
CET can deal with more than what they put on the website so it's worth asking them. If you can afford to wait they would attach a new motor to your cowling, but there's probablt a Baxi/potterton part that fits since they bough the company who made your boiler. Alpha was just the UK company who marketed it. Only Alpha used to specify better quality o rings in the diverter valve, and after Baxi bought the manufacturing company they though they would go back to cheap ones, some years later Baxi worked it out.
CET can deal with more than what they put on the website so it's worth asking them. If you can afford to wait they would attach a new motor to your cowling, but there's probablt a Baxi/potterton part that fits since they bough the company who made your boiler. Alpha was just the UK company who marketed it. Only Alpha used to specify better quality o rings in the diverter valve, and after Baxi bought the manufacturing company they though they would go back to cheap ones, some years later Baxi worked it out.
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