Am I being 'the most cautious client ever?'

[lmk]

OK, so I've got a great builder, worked for friends, local architect recommends etc etc . . . He has recommended some electricians. The came round and we agreed a price of £5,500 for a full rewire (5 bed house). I asked them to send me a written quote before confirming what's included and excluded. Quote said price includes all labour and materials, excluding fittings. They want £1,500 deposit up front, rest on completion.

However, they turn up today and presented me with a shopping list - everything including the consumer box, heat sensors, smoke alarms - I was a bit shocked. I agreed to everything but not the consumer box as I am under the impression is not a 'fitting.' Anyway we came to an agreement - THEN they changed the payment plan. £1,500 upfront, £1,000 the week after - etc etc. I said this was a bit of a shock as I would normally expect to hold back the bulk of the costs until the circuits are tested and NICEIC approved.

So, I asked them to leave and said I had to speak to my husband tonight.

The also said that after the rewire was certified by NICEIC guy if anything went wrong it wouldn't be their fault - would be the NICEIC persons responsibility.

What do you all think about this? Comments greatly appreciated.

LMK

 

[kevindgas]

bolt your door and don't have them in your house again!

£5000+ for a rewire should in my opinion include the CU, all the wire and a standard white fitting for every point needed (light, switch socket etc.) you should expect to make up the difference if you want chrome /brass etc.
and most of all a Competent Person doing the work, that means Qualified and Registered to undertake the work.

 

[oharaf]

Hard to tell about the price!! But for that EVERYTHING should be included. What are you having? i.e. Number of sockets , lights switches etc!!!

Staged payments are becoming a little more common, however Lions share should be after the whole thing is signed off.

It sounds as if they are getting someone in to test!!!! Ask why they are not registered at www.competentperson.co.uk

It sounds very fishy to me, get another 2 quotes at least from reccomendations from your friends

 

[rebuke]

Well, changing the payment terms is rude, and you'd be quite within your rights not to agree to them and tell them to go away.

What are they calling materials then, cable etc - generally I wouldn't have considered the CU a fitting, as in general you don't choose one to look nice, as you would with light fittings, switches etc, but I don't think there's any hard and fast definition anywhere...

As for certification - it sounds like they're working under a qualified spark who's able to self certify under Part P, either that or they're attempting to get qualified themselves, and are planning on using this as one of their demonstration jobs. I'd ask them who will be certifying it to the LABC, and then verify that person is able to by looking it up at www.competentperson.co.uk - if they're not on that list, don't use them as unless they notify the LABC before doing the work, and get the LABC in to inspect/test, it won't be legal, and you may have trouble selling the house in future.

As for responsibility, if they're working under a qualified spark, who signs off on the install, then technically yes, that is the person who has signed to say it complies with Part P / BS7671 etc, so if it doesn't, he's the one who has lied. If there was a fault and someone died (e.g. cable run outside of safe zone that got drilled in to or something), I suspect the courts would track down the actual person responsible, if there was any evidence to prove they installed something badly, as well as prosecuting the person who signed off on it...

 

[Stoday]

Are you being the most cautious client ever? No, if you go ahead you'll become the most stupid client ever.

You can see that the firm is trying to rip you off; you should expect them to be even worse if they do the job.

 

[lmk]

OK, so my shopping list consists of:-
all the gang ways, the doubled socket (35), the TV sockets, telephone sockets, 6 x pendant sets, 4 smoke alarms, 1 heat detectors, distribution system 4 way, 10 x 5A terminal blocks. 10 downlights -

The crossed consumer unit and 18 way with 2 reds off the list.

I did expect to pay for anything chrome and fancy, the downlights and external lights - as I appreciate these are 'fittings.'

I have agreed to pay for alot of the above -

They were due to start rewire today - going through the house - downstairs we are having some structural work done in the kitchen. I think they are worried about tying in payment of their final amount to this other work - which I understand.

Could I have the rewire on the rest of the house tested and approved before the kitchen work is completed? - so I can release the payment for the work they have done thus far - holding back the rest for when they complete the kitchen.

What say you all?

What do you think?

 

[ColJack]

sounds to me like they provided a rather vague written quote..

normally written quotes should include a list of points ( or at least a general number per area ) and what type of fittings you'll be getting for your money.. all based on your specs when they come round to look at the job..

this should include a consumer unit.

 

[mattylad]

I think it sounds like you are still planing on using them and have not heeded the above advice!

Get some more quotes from people actually on the competent persons website!

 

[lmk]

We are undecided - - thing is, building work starts next week and this completely screws us up - so if I sound undecided it is desperation.

We do have another quote £6,500 for the work, including all materials and VAT (chrome light switches and down lights etc) so although £1K more it is inclusive. He is Part P, competent persons registered etc - and was also very pleasant. I got his number off the NICEIC website. However I do not have any personal references to go on.

How safe do you think I would be using someone who I don't know but has NICEIC registration - Part P registration. etc . . .?

 

[electronicsuk]

I think it sounds like you are still planing on using them and have not heeded the above advice!

Get some more quotes from people actually on the competent persons website!

Yup - don't try and talk yourself into going with them just because it's the most easy/convenient option. Your builder may have reasons other than the quality of their workmanship for recommending that particular company. If they aren't even a member of a self-certification scheme then I would be very wary - membership would be expected of any company taking on large jobs such as this, which makes me question if there's a reason why they aren't part of a scheme.

 

[kevindgas]

How safe do you think I would be using someone who I don't know but has NICEIC registration - Part P registration. etc . . .?

a lot safer than using numptie builders inc.!!

 

[dextrous]

Don't use them!

Decide on the fittings you require, and get whoever it is to include the price of these in their quote. Most tradesmen know where to get a discount if there's one to be had.

Make sure you agree on the exact number and placement of the fittings in each room - if you write down the specification which they agree to, then there can be no subsequent disagreements or mysterious "add-ons".

You should also be clear whether you expect them to make good (channels in walls etc) afterwards, and that you will withold final settlement until you have the correct certificates in your hand - not just a receipt or invoice of the work carried out.

This is what a pro would find reasonable.

 

[dextrous]

We are undecided - - thing is, building work starts next week and this completely screws us up - so if I sound undecided it is desperation.

If this puts your main contractor out, and the electricians were from his recommendations, then that's his problem

We do have another quote £6,500 for the work, including all materials and VAT (chrome light switches and down lights etc) so although £1K more it is inclusive.

If the fittinggs are chrome, and he's including the consumer unit, then the price differential is reasonable

He is Part P, competent persons registered etc - and was also very pleasant. I got his number off the NICEIC website. However I do not have any personal references to go on.

Yes you do have references - NICEIC is a good one to start with!

How safe do you think I would be using someone who I don't know but has NICEIC registration - Part P registration. etc . . .?

If he's signing it off, which he will be, then the work will have to be done up to standard, so probably very safe

 

[lmk]

All of your comments are so greatly appreciated. We've just told them we're not going to use them - we need more time to think. They were actually incredibly polite about it all -

thanks for your help - I will go with this other guy and update you all as to how I got on.

 

[dextrous]

This builder's not called Nick Goodall is he? Twice bankcrupt, and uses shoddy subcontractors at times to keep his costs down.