Another cooker question!

[simonph]

Hello,
I've just received my oven for the new kitchen. Because we didn't have a dedicated feed from the circuit breaker in the cellar for the oven the kitchen fitter 'spurred' off a plug socket that was no longer being used and fitted a double plug socket inside one of the cabinets. He then fitted a plug to the ceramic hob and plug it in the new socket... Will the socket take the oven as well? Also, will a 13 amp plug be ok for the oven? I've also got to buy some flex as there is just an electrical terminal on the back of the oven.
thanks for your help

 

[ninebob]

Firstly, don't ever trust a kitchen fitter as an electrician!

SOME ovens are OK on a 13A plug, some are most definitely NOT, and a ceramic hob is almost certainly too high powered.

Look for a plate on the hob and oven, or at the documentation that came with it, and look for the power rating in Watts. The absolute maximum that you can draw from a 13A outlet is 2990 watts - and that's from the double socket as a whole, NOT 2990 watts per plug.

I strongly suspect that you'll be well over this limit, so you're going to need a new circuit (probably 32A or 40A) from the CU.

Get back to us with the power ratings...

 

[simonph]

this is what i suspected.. i'll see what i can find when i get home. thanks for the help

 

[simonph]

just phoned hotpoint and the oven's wattage is 2250 - 2400 and the hob is 6200 (!)
so, the socket should be ok for the oven at least (?) and a cable will have to be made for the hob.. is this a big job for an electrician?

 

[simonph]

just spoke with kitchen fitter and he says he came off the ring main with the double socket.. this make sense to anyone?

 

[ZenStalinist]

UGh!!! Yes... I don't believe it should be attatched like that!

You mean the hob comes off the ring? That shouldn't be... The hob or the hob and the oven should be on a dedicated circuit.

If you just put the hob on its own circuit, it should be backed up by a 30 or 32 amp protective device - use 4mm cable to wire it in. If both the hob and the oven are on their own circuit, you should use a 40 or 45 amp protective device, and you should use 6mm cable.

Use a cooker connector to connect the hob...

And if you want to wire them both in...

You could actually get one with a 13amp socket on it and connect the oven into the socket... or you could have two cooker connectors wired radially... Or a 13 amp FCU with the cooker attatched ( I think... not too sure on this one)

 

[simonph]

erm.. not sure what all that meant but thanks anyway!
going to further investigate tonight.. really don't know enough about it to understand!

 

[ninebob]

To put Zen's words a bit more simply, the key points are this:

1. The hob SHOULD NOT AND MUST NOT be connected via a 13A plug. If the kitchen fitter has connected it this way and it works at full load then he has come up with an ingenious way of bypassing the fuse and should be reported immediately. (Of course it may be that you haven't tried to put all 4 rings on, and that the fuse will indeed blow if you tried).

2. You could safely run the oven from a standard socket but given the incompetence of your kitchen fitter I personally wouldn't trust his socket as far as I could throw it. SO...

3. What you need to do is call an electrician, who will create you a new 45A circuit from your consumer unit to which he will safely connect both the oven and the hob.

In most cases I can't see it being a horrendously expensive job, but obviously it depends on many factors such as the make of your CU, ease of access, length of cable run etc etc. Best advice is to call a few and get several quotes.

 

[plugwash]

report this guy to trading standards IMMEDIATELY

and threaten him with small claims court if he doesnt pay to have it done properly by a qualified electrician

 

[ZenStalinist]

Actually I agree. It is dangerous that he is going around wiring peoples kitchens up like that, I think he should face the consequences. Clearly a liability, his incompetence or just plain lazy bodging is putting peoples' lives at risk.

 

[simonph]

thanks for all your help.. went home and tried all four rings on the hob and yes they do work but draw power away from the extractor fan. have called an electrician who is coming saturday morning to have a look. what a mess.. anybody have a rough idea how much it might cost to provide a cable for the oven and hob?

 

[plugwash]

dont do anything to it until you at least have taken photo for trading standards

this guy needs to be stopped

 

[ninebob]

If the hob works at full load I'm intrigued to see what might be in place of the fuse. UNPLUG THE HOB AND DO NOT USE IT until an electrician has connected it properly. Take the plug apart and do tell us what's inside... because even though plugtop fuses are relatively "slow-blow", I can't see even a 13A lasting long under a 6000+ watt load...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The guys above are right - this kitchen fitter is a dangerous menace. He's either too ignorant or too unconcerned to know or care that what he's doing could kill someone - either way, he thinks it's OK, and so he won't be swayed by you saying "Well my electrician says you shouldn't have done it". He needs to be thwacked as hard as possible with as much legal force as possible, but unfortunately all you can do is complain to TS, and they won't give a toss.

If you've not paid him, don't. If you have paid him, get a written report from the electrician, ask him if he'd be prepared to testify in court if it comes to it, and sue him for the cost of having it put right.

Even if you employed him, if he came recommended by the supplier of the kitchen, write to the branch manager and the chief executive and tell him about this. If you found him via a business card display in a shed, again, write to the branch manager and the chief executive.

And curse him for providing yet more anecdotal evidence that Part P will be a good thing.

 

[dingbat]

Sadly, I see this sort of thing all the time. Kitchen fitters, plumbers, chippies, conservatory erectors, roofers, tilers, bricklayers, etc, all think they can do the job of an electrician because they have seen electricians do it. For some reason every trade seems to assume that every other trade is a doddle and a licence to print money. I just spent a week on a hefty rewire with lots of physical work chasing in, long hours and a particularly nasty six hours in the loft on the hottest day of the year so far. On the day I spent second-fixing, a couple of guys were working on the new conservatory foundations. I overheard their conversation on the lines of, "Electrican... easy money... piece of pish... I could do that."

Talking to them later I learned that they had recently replaced all the windows in the house. I asked about FENSA and discovered that although they'd heard of it they had no idea what it meant or if their firm complied with the requirements. As far as they were concerned they were fully competent window fitters but knew nothing about the regulations of their own trade, yet they both thought they could do my job!!