Are my pipes moaning because of near-freezing or something else?

[Not_a_slumlord]

I have a basement apartment. The tenant informed me 3 days ago that the a pipe moaned when she turned the cold water on in the kitchen sink. It's been extremely cold for the past 2 weeks, with temps lower than -30 °F at night, and warming to 1 or 2 °F during the day on the really warm days. None of the other plumbing causes the pipes to moan. She's been letting the water trickle since she told me, as my assumption was that the pipes are partly frozen. It was -10 °F last night but has warmed to 10 °F today.

It appears that her kitchen sink is the first pipe into the house, but I'm not certain. Most of the plumbing is not exposed, so it's hard to tell. None of the other plumbing in the basement apartment moans when the water is turned on, or at least that's what she tells me. I've been letting my water trickle and have been keeping the house warm, as my kitchen sink and washer are plumbed next to outside walls.

My assumption has been that the pipe is near frozen given the weather. Am I on the right track? I don't want to call a plumber if we just need to wait until it warms up, and it will over the next few days.

 

[KenGMac]

not_a_slumlord, good evening.

I take it you are based in the USA? or at least that is what appears on your profile? if so? this is a UK based site, as such, because of differences in practices could be a problem?

As for your question?
Has your tenant reported this problem on any previous occasions?

If not then there is a chance that the water entering may be close to freezing and that is causing the sounds?

Ken

 

[Not_a_slumlord]

I am a female as well. I trouble-shoot, so sod off, or whatever they say in the UK.

I am in the US, I hadn't noticed this message board was out of the UK, but it was the first message board that popped up when I did a search. I don't see how plumbing can vary that much among nations, so why not continue?

This is the first she's mentioned this problem, and the sound is loud and notable. And yes, it could be that it's close to freezing and this has been my assumption, which is why I described the profound cold we've been experiencing. I've had her keep a trickle of flow through the pipe to avoid freezing and bursting. I'm just wondering if any other issues other than freezing that could result in a pipe carrying cold water to one faucet to result in moaning. I've dealt with moaning pipes to a toilet that were the result of a faulty valve. I can't think of anything other than freezing that would result in this sound, but would like to make sure before I call a plumber. It may take a while thaw, so I was looking for information on other potential causes in case I do need to get a plumber.

 

[ianmcd]

Universal Constants. She doesn't even need to be a tenant


Mind you at minus 30 Fahrenheit I might start to bleet a little too

last time I was at anything Fahrenheit I was 12 and I am scottish so I probably bleeted a lot more

 

[ianmcd]

we need a whole new thread about Americans telling us about their faucets , sounds great to me ,

 

[Not_a_slumlord]

last time I was at anything Fahrenheit I was 12 and I am scottish so I probably bleeted a lot more

As a scientist, I would be elated to be talking about degrees centigrade, and if we were talking about water temperatures suitable for growth of trout, I would be using centigrade. I've never had to convert these temperatures to celcius, but -30 is cold regardless of units of measure.

 

[KenGMac]

OK I think that the noise is being generated because water entering the property, just above freezing point of water is in effect "shocking" the metal in the incoming pipework to the extent that it [quite correctly] is complaining about this vast differential in temperature [whether C or F] the water is somehow managing to get in, probably at a lower volume

I would imagine the internal temperature of the dwelling is at a "comfortable" level, lets say + 20 [or more] degrees C [sorry it is some almost 40 Years since I used F] the thermal shock is in my opinion quite high.

If there have been no previous complaints by [Whoever] occupies toe property [ I am attempting to be "Politically Correct"here] i would put the noise down to thermal shock

On a different tack nice to know that this site is that prominent on Google [or whatever search engine you used?]

Ken.

 

[Not_a_slumlord]

OK I think that the noise is being generated because water entering the property, just above freezing point of water is in effect "shocking" the metal in the incoming pipework to the extent that it [quite correctly] is complaining about this vast differential in temperature [whether C or F] the water is somehow managing to get in, probably at a lower volume

I would imagine the internal temperature of the dwelling is at a "comfortable" level, lets say + 20 [or more] degrees C [sorry it is some almost 40 Years since I used F] the thermal shock is in my opinion quite high.

If there have been no previous complaints by [Whoever] occupies toe property [ I am attempting to be "Politically Correct"here] i would put the noise down to thermal shock

On a different tack nice to know that this site is that prominent on Google [or whatever search engine you used?]

Ken.

Thanks Ken,
I can convert temperatures between 0 and 25 °C in my head easily. She's keeping it close to 20 C, so the thermal shock makes sense. No human who has rented that apartment in the years I've owned the house has made that particular complaint. Nor have we had a spate of extreme cold of this duration and intensity since I purchased the house. I'm relieved that it is something that will resolve with warming temperatures.

I did use Google, and it's rare that my Internet searches yield information from outside the US. So thanks for being helpful to someone so far away!

 

[Dan Robinson]

We do love a challenge but you skeptics make it more interesting by having your own version of "imperial" ... I've often wondered if that was just because you're being the belligerent upstart.

But -30F is what -35c? Fook knows, F was one of the few imperial measurements I couldn't get my head around at school. Otherwise UK imperial and SI I can happily swap around.


International plumbing is also both the same but very different - I deal with a lot of Japanese plumbing and some things are very easy to cope with from a UK mindset, but others are very different due to nature of the buildings. As can be seen by what is on the shelf of a UK plumber's merchant and one in Japan. One repair I tried to do there would have been quicker and cheaper for me to order the part from my supplier in the UK, fly home, get it, fly back, instigate the repair and charge by the hour, than, it was for a local contractor there to do.

It was only the lack of a license there that prevented me from doing the job.

(Normally I'd get a letter from my mum, but she doesn't understand Kanji ).

RIght .. It's late, I have to leave for work in 4 hours. Nighty night.

 

[Not_a_slumlord]

For clarity:

 

[bernardgreen]

we need a whole new thread about Americans telling us about their faucets , sounds great to me ,

The tap was very stiff to turn so I had to force it

 

[Hot&Cold]

As a scientist,

Have you measured the water temperature at the moaning tap

 

[Careful_Bodger]

Sounds(!) like water hammer. There's not a slowly-filling cistern or similar connected on the same pipe, is there??

 

[Not_a_slumlord]

Have you measured the water temperature at the moaning tap

No, I did not. I think Ken's explanation is likely. I suspect the water was hovering just above 0 °C. The pipe felt very cold. I'm glad the tenant was home to find the loud pipe: otherwise, I suspect a burst pipe and flooded basement were likely. I had been more worried about the pipes that are in my part of the house that are above ground and on the outside wall. I added insulation to those when I bought the house and added vents on the wall, so the heat from the house would better reach the pipes.

This cold spate has been a boon to local plumbers.

 

[Not_a_slumlord]

Sounds(!) like water hammer. There's not a slowly-filling cistern or similar connected on the same pipe, is there??

No, I'm on city water. It's gravity fed from a water tower on a nearby hill.