Asbestos in dining room wall...???

[slackyboy]

Hi everyone... I've been a long-time viewer of the forums, but never registered or posted (never really had enough experience of anything to be of any help to anyone and never needed to ask anything that wasn't already covered)... But now I have an issue that I really could use some information in relation to...

I've been doing some work in my parents bungalow in Cornwall and, in the process, I came across a solid black (slate-like) object in the wall... I have had a piece tested and it is definitely white asbestos inside it... but I'm struggling to figure out if it is Asbestos Insulation Board which I understand is very dangerous (?) and of which I am very VERY scared, or whether it is asbestos concrete, which I understand is still dangerous but not as bad as AIB??

The material literally looks like slate, it is black-ish in colour and is very hard, it doesn't feel brittle like any of the other asbestos sheets I've come across (which were always light grey and very brittle)... So I'm trying to figure out what it is we've got here.

Basically, what I can see is that this solid black slate-like stuff appears to have (once upon a time) covered the entire wall that I am working on but, at some point, one of the property's previous owners seems to have smashed out large chunks of it and now all that is left is about 3 inches below the window and about 3 inches above the floor with everything in between having been plastered (I had the plaster tested and it had no asbestos).

I can't figure out why asbestos cement sheet would cover all of the INSIDE of a wall? Or why anyone would smash out so much yet still leave this amount?

Finally, most of the sheet is still covered although what is showing (now because of removed plaster etc) is fraying at the edges; I don't know what to do for the best... neither myself or my parents can afford to have a company come in and remove the stuff... so I don't know whether to paint over and then plaster over and plaster board over that, or whether to remove etc...

I should add that (for one reason or another from childhood) I have a real fear of this stuff... like an absolute paranoia phobia...

I'm really sorry for such a massive-long first post... I really hope that at some point I will have something helpful to share!!!

 

[footprints]

I’m afraid I have never seen anything like you describe although I know synthetic roofing slates were made containing asbestos they look very much like traditional slate so it’s quite possible these are something similar for decoration.

I would contact the local council environmental health department and ask them, it may be something that was used commonly on buildings in the area and they may be able to identify it for you as well as advising on the best course of action.

Just a thought, I expect I’m talking complete nonsense, but I believe that houses in Cornwall have special treatment to seal floors to keep out Radon gas, however I can’t see why a wall would need any kind of barrier or coating unless it was set into a hillside or something odd like that.

Best wishes,
footprints

 

[slackyboy]

Hi Footprints, thanks for the reply!!

I'm definitely with you... I've never seen anything like this before!! I must say that I am not the best with colours (suspect ever so slightly colour blind) so when I say it's black, others may say it is dark grey although even if that is the case it is still a REALLY dark grey... and still looks to me very much like a slate...

I think I will definitely follow your advice and try and get hold of someone in the local environmental heath department and see if they have any idea!!

I wonder whether I can be cheeky and pick your brain a little more...
I've been searching and searching on the internet and I can't find anything coming even close to an answer to the following question:

"What are the differences in characteristics between Asbestos Cement Sheets and Asbestos Insulation Board?"

Or even:

"What does Asbestos Insulation Board look like?"


I know they did use asbestos roofing slates in Cornwall for years and years (some of the neighbouring properties still have them on the roof) but they all look very slim (literally a couple of millimetres) but this I have found in this wall is about 5 or 6mm thick or thereabouts.

Thanks again for your reply, I really do appreciate it!!

Slackyboy

P.S. You were definitely NOT talking nonsense... some properties in some parts of Cornwall did (don't know if they still do) have to be protected from radon gas.

 

[^woody^]

I am not sure what you mean by "in the wall" with this stuff - do you mean built in, or on the face of the wall?

Its just an unusual location.

The only thing that I can think of is if it was the backing to some sort of sound or insulation board, but in that case it would be stuck on the wall face

But also the fact that it is black is odd - unless they are roof tiles

A photo of the general view of the wall may help

Anyway, AIB tends to be a thicker sheet to asbestos cement sheet (about 10mm or thicker), and sounds more dull than cement sheet if tapped. If you can picture office suspended ceiling tiles, then they are a bit like AIB -and it will be fibrous and flaky when broken. Cement board is not easily broken easily and wont be fibrous along the edges

If you have it tested then that is that. The next thing is whether it needs to be removed or can remain and be encapsulated

 

[maltaron]

allmost certainly artifitial roof slates. Could be asbestos or cement. Other than that I cannot help much, other than to say that when I was looking to buy a bungalow in Cornwall, one property I looked at had all internal walls clad in asbestos cement sheets.

 

[footprints]

Sorry I’m no expert on asbestos I used to work mainly with asbestos cement flue and sheet which is about 10-15% asbestos. . As I understand it AIB’s are often 25-40% and may go up to 70%.

The asbestos cement was hard and brittle, fairly smooth on one side and dimpled on the other, some boards we used from time to time like Asbestolux were softer (we used to prefer them as they were easy to cut!) and smooth on both sides, as I now understand they are very high in asbestos content, I’m only guessing but I imagine this would be the AIB type of product.

Trouble is they used to put asbestos in practically anything from washers to DIY wine filters, so the answer is you just can’t tell by looking.

You have had it tested so ask if they can tell you the content, I know that they often stick to just confirming the presence and are reluctant to be too specific about the % but it’s worth asking explaining that as a householder you really need to know if it is a product you can deal with yourself or one that must be removed by a licensed contractor.

Take a look at the link below, there is a picture of some patio slabs are they anything like what you have?


http://www.kentsurveys.com/AsbestosGallery.htm

Regards,
footprints.

 

[slackyboy]

Hi, thanks for all the replies!

Right... the "slates" do appear to be somehow adhered TO the wall but, bizarely, only on TOP of a layer of plaster. The plaster has been tested and does not contain any asbestos.

The "slates" don't really look like the patio tiles in the gallery above. If anything, they look more like the roof tiles displayed in the gallery.

When broken you can kind of see fibres (one was sticking out reminded me of fibreglass), but mainly it just looks like a slate.

I seem to be becoming more and more confused as time goes on... that gallery suggests (unless I am mistaken - quite possible!!) that all of the AIB has brown asbestos in it... but I know that this stuff I have found has only white asbestos.

Since there is no way we can afford to have it professionally removed (unfortunately, since I'm petrified of the stuff), I'm thinking of painting it, filling over it with silicone sealer, slapping some plaster in where I've taken plaster off (hence I discovered it) and plaster boarding over the top of the entire wall!!

I know that it's not possible for anyone to give a certain answer, but is the general consensus that the above steps should hopefully render this stuff (whatever it is) as safe?

 

[footprints]

Enviromental health is definitely the way to go, theres no substitute for someone actually coming round and looking at it.
They will also advise the best way to seal it in if that's the way you decide to go.

Best wishes,
footprints

 

[^woody^]

Asbestos boards are only "unsafe" when sanded or broken (lots of times) - that is when fibres are released. Otherwise the boards are safe if left undisturbed. You don't need to go overboard with and encapsulation

Chrysotile (white asbestos) if one of the less risky forms, and tends to be found in harder materials with less risk of breakage and less risk of fibre release

 

[^woody^]

Enviromental health is definitely the way to go,

They wont come out and do anything. They are not specialists and may just refer the OP to someone who is

 

[slackyboy]

Just to add to the above though:

When I said that it looks "fibrous" when broken, I don't mean that it looks like this:
http://www.asbestosremovalexpert.co...sulation-board-by-topasbestosremovalcouk1.jpg

but looks more like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/asbestos_pix/4458661652/in/set-72157615697045471

but with the odd bit of fiberglass looking stuff (that I know from testing to be white asbestos) sticking out....

Only nowhere near as thick as that last picture... only about 6mm thick...

Thanks again everyone.

 

[^woody^]

That not fibrous then

It seems to be asbestos roof tile, which is low content/low hazard

 

[slackyboy]

Thanks for the reply Woody...

I think I'll end up recovering it... I know people say there's no need to go overboard... but given just how scared I am of the stuff... I figure it's best to go overboard and continue to be able to visit the folks (their not really worried because they're already old and they figure they'll probably have met their maker before they felt any ill effects from it)...

Some people are petrified of snakes, some spider, some planes, some even bananas... my phobia is definitely asbestos!!!

Cheers.
Slackyboy.

 

[footprints]

Hi Woody,
Yes as you say many will be less than helpfull, it depends on your council and who you get to speak to. I've had customers who have had the brush off and others where the staff that have been more than happy to help.
There's no harm in asking, if you get the "jobs worth" type you still haven't lost anything.
Best wishes,
footprints

 

[^woody^]

Yes that's true. I sometimes forget that some council staff do actually try and help.

Its just that, with a lot of things including asbestos, the council would actually not be helping by trying to help. Its best to advise where to get the help from

If the guy comes out, and is not an expert, and tells the OP to do this try that etc, then he could be worse off by relying on the advice