Backup generator

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First of all, I hope readers will understand the reasons for the length of this post. I am seeking advice from professional sparkies, being qualified and experienced in ways that I am not, so I feel it necessary to provide a minimum amount of information to allow any comments and advice provided to be relevant and properly informed.

This is the foundation for this post. I have come round to thinking that it would be sensible to look seriously at a backup generator supply for my home in case of a protracted power cut (I would regard anything more than six hours as protracted) or a sequence of rolling power cuts occurring on a repeated/regular basis. I do not regard the latter possibility as ridiculously far-fetched, at least if some of the more pessimistic forecasts of future electricity generation resources do materialise.

My objectives are (more or less in order of priority):

- maintain electrical supply to gas boilers (I have two matched boilers) for heating and domestic hot water. All DHW is provided by the boilers (no electric water heating). There are two circulation pumps, each ~50W, plus usual electrically operated valves;

- maintain minimum level of lighting in occupied rooms on ad hoc basis (all lighting is LED so a reasonably low aggregate load);

- maintain power supply via circuits for refrigeration appliances as follows: 1 x side by side fridge/freezer (dedicated circuit), 3 x under counter fridges, 1 x under counter freezer (all on ring main circuits);

- maintain power supply on ring main circuits for TVs (up to 2 at any time), laptop and phone chargers and similar, incidental, low-load items;

- facilitate controlled and selective use (i.e. not simultaneous) of large appliances as follows: washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher, microwave/combi oven, oven, induction hob, vacuum cleaner

- facilitate night-time use of EV charger (this is on a 7kW/40A supply but can be throttled back to anything between 5A and 24A);

In other words, I want to be able to use all of the electrically powered resources that I have, but in a controlled and, if necessary, tightly restricted way.

Clearly, if I had unlimited funds and space, I could buy a 10-20kW genset and install it with automatic changeover switching. However, I don't have that luxury in terms of finance or space. I am looking to arrange insurance against reasonably low probability events, but ones that could be extremely disruptive to my family’s lives and comfort, if they materialise. I don’t expect not to be inconvenienced by any loss of mains power, but I want to limit the disruption.
So, my thinking is to acquire a ~5kW diesel genset with minimum 12 hours fuel endurance. If the need to use it arises, I expect to have to move it from its usual storage location to a suitable operating location. An example genset I have seen online is 920x550x750 (LxWxH), wheeled, and weighs ~180kg, including fuel. I reckon this is reasonably manageable for one person.

I am willing to take the risk that a power cut could occur at a time when I am unable to effect a manual changeover from mains power to genset supply, so I don’t intend to install automatic changeover switchgear. My idea is to use a suitable length 32A cable and commando plug/socket to connect the genny to the house electrical network, via a manually operated ‘break before make’ changeover switch. The questions on which I seek advice from the learned, professional readers on this board are:

- Is there a desirable maximum cable length to connect genny to domestic electrical network (I have in mind a run of up to 25m)?

- Looking at the layout of installation in my meter cabinet, does the following wiring solution (word picture) make sense?

1. As seen in the pic, the supply from the meter is split at a (Henley) connector block. One P&N pair goes through the house wall (bottom of cabinet) to a 20 way CU (“DB1”) located on the inside of the same wall. The second pair goes to a switchfuse from which the SWA cable seen runs through the house foundations to a second CU (and sub-CU) (“DB2” and “DB3”) in the garage on the opposite side of the house. As I understand, a switchfuse was not required between the meter and DB1 because the separation is <1m.

2. Setting aside (for now) any question of physical space limitation, my idea is that the meter tails should be diverted to a ‘break before make’ changeover switch, which would have a corresponding feed from a genset source via a 32A male inlet socket mounted on the house wall outside the cabinet. a P&N pair from the changeover switch would then lead to the connector block. If the need to use the genset arises, I would wheel the genny to its operating location, connect a 32A cable between the genny outlet and the male inlet socket, then throw the changeover switch.

I’d appreciate any and all comments and observations on the above. TIA.

Meter layout.jpg
 
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Not sure I'm helping here but chipping in what I heard.
I listened to a podcast with the americans getting ready for zombies. Ha.
Anyway.
If your going to power the house you need to be able to cut the power to the grid. Obviously.....
Some do that along with a house mains gas powered generator. Think you convert a petrol gen to gas?
Other option is to get a 240v Inverter and hook up to the car and use that as a generator. That the cheapest and easiest but sounds like you want something better so maybe gas powered?
 
I do not profess to be an expert on this specific topic, but it seems to me that the most significant point that you haven't addressed in your plan so far is earthing.

From the photo you've supplied, you appear to be on a PME or TN-C-S earthing system, although the usual sticker warning of this is not present. Your DNO will not take kindly to you relying on this earthing system when using your generator, and you will likely be expected to provide your own in the form of earth electrodes. However, the DNO may well place restrictions on how your earthing system may be connected to theirs, and as far as I'm aware, having a switch in an earth conductor is forbidden, so a discussion with your DNO's technical department may be necessary with regard to what they will accept. It should be noted that the DNO have their own set of rules separate from BS7671 and it is not always straightforward to satisfy both.
 
I do not profess to be an expert on this specific topic, but it seems to me that the most significant point that you haven't addressed in your plan so far is earthing.

From the photo you've supplied, you appear to be on a PME or TN-C-S earthing system, although the usual sticker warning of this is not present. Your DNO will not take kindly to you relying on this earthing system when using your generator, and you will likely be expected to provide your own in the form of earth electrodes. However, the DNO may well place restrictions on how your earthing system may be connected to theirs, and as far as I'm aware, having a switch in an earth conductor is forbidden, so a discussion with your DNO's technical department may be necessary with regard to what they will accept. It should be noted that the DNO have their own set of rules separate from BS7671 and it is not always straightforward to satisfy both.

Yes, you're quite right on the earthing arrangement. The DNO earth is TN-C-S as you surmised.

I had thought of installing an earth rod in the operating location and I would make the connection if the need to use the genny arises. Not foolproof but I'm not looking to achieve that,
 
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Not sure I'm helping here but chipping in what I heard.
I listened to a podcast with the americans getting ready for zombies. Ha.
Anyway.
If your going to power the house you need to be able to cut the power to the grid. Obviously.....
Some do that along with a house mains gas powered generator. Think you convert a petrol gen to gas?
Other option is to get a 240v Inverter and hook up to the car and use that as a generator. That the cheapest and easiest but sounds like you want something better so maybe gas powered?

Ha! My car's an EV. It does have 100kWh battery capacity so equivalent to 20 hours on a 5kW genny. But what do I do when the car battery's discharged?
 
Ha! My car's an EV. It does have 100kWh battery capacity so equivalent to 20 hours on a 5kW genny. But what do I do when the car battery's discharged?
They keep engine running but not with EV. Ha. Fine for an hour I guess.
Was interesting to listen to a guy that got a gas conversion fitted to run on mains gas
 
Yes, you're quite right on the earthing arrangement. The DNO earth is TN-C-S as you surmised.

I had thought of installing an earth rod in the operating location and I would make the connection if the need to use the genny arises. Not foolproof but I'm not looking to achieve that,

The problem you may encounter with that is than in some (admittedly rare) fault scenarios, the voltage on the DNO's earth can rise significantly above that of the local "true earth", and if such a situation does arise, there are 2 possible issues. If your earth electrode is already connected, a significant current may pass between the DNO earth and yours, so you would need to ensure that your cable is of sufficient size to deal with that. If, on the other hand, you were to connect your electrode whilst such a fault existed on the DNO network, you could receive a significant shock, and/or arc burn due to the potential difference between their earth and yours. On the flip side, the DNO would be extremely unhappy if a fault on your side somehow raised the voltage on their earth to a point where it could be dangerous to someone working on repairing a cable. Also unlikely, but not impossible.

Earthing can be a tricky one, a good few radio amateurs have experienced unfortunate side effects due to incautious connection of radio transmitter earthing rods to mains earth.
 
The problem you may encounter with that is than in some (admittedly rare) fault scenarios, the voltage on the DNO's earth can rise significantly above that of the local "true earth", and if such a situation does arise, there are 2 possible issues. If your earth electrode is already connected, a significant current may pass between the DNO earth and yours, so you would need to ensure that your cable is of sufficient size to deal with that. If, on the other hand, you were to connect your electrode whilst such a fault existed on the DNO network, you could receive a significant shock, and/or arc burn due to the potential difference between their earth and yours. On the flip side, the DNO would be extremely unhappy if a fault on your side somehow raised the voltage on their earth to a point where it could be dangerous to someone working on repairing a cable. Also unlikely, but not impossible.

Earthing can be a tricky one, a good few radio amateurs have experienced unfortunate side effects due to incautious connection of radio transmitter earthing rods to mains earth.

Hmm. So is the answer, when using the genny, to isolate/disconnect the DNO earth from the MET and connect the local earth? Is there a switch one could use to do that?
 
That may be a solution. There may be more than one solution. At this point you're going to have to do some reading I'm afraid.

Switching of earth conductors is generally prohibited, but there are certain exceptions and it appears your situation could be one. You'll need to look at BS7671, regulations 543.3.3.101 & 537.1.5 for a start, and all the other sections referenced by them.
 
To have a consumer unit powered from a 32 amp plug and socket arrangement so items supplied from the consumer unit can either be plugged into a generator or the mains is the easy cheap method.

However even when powered from mains your looking at 32 amp maximum. Can up it to 63 amp.

But what ever is powered from that consumer unit will have to be within the mains supply even if not within the generator supply.

As you increase with cable size you also make it harder to unplug and plug in.

Having two 32 amp plugs and sockets may work one dedicated for the EV and other for the rest, it is possible.

So a small consumer unit (B) with essential services plugged into a 32 amp socket which also has a 32 amp socket outlet, so normal running consumer unit (B) plugged into one 32 amp socket on main consumer unit (A), and the EV charging plugged into another 32 amp socket from consumer unit (A), when there is a power cut the consumer unit (B) is unplugged from (A) and instead plugged into generator, and the EV charging point also unplugged from CU (A) and plugged into CU (B).

However there are some possible problems:-
1) If the EV charging point uses a current transformer to monitor whole house usage this needs to be considered.
2) When using the generator the generators earth rod will be used, this may mean the RCD becomes a primary protective device not secondary, so may need a type B RCD, it would need a risk assessment.
3) Should some one not reduce the EV charging rate during a power cut or forget to raise it again after it may cause problems.
4) The EV charging unit likely needs 207 to 253 volt, it is possible the generator will dip too much and the EV charging will lock out.

Take EV charging out of the equation and much easier.
 
That may be a solution. There may be more than one solution. At this point you're going to have to do some reading I'm afraid.

Switching of earth conductors is generally prohibited, but there are certain exceptions and it appears your situation could be one. You'll need to look at BS7671, regulations 543.3.3.101 & 537.1.5 for a start, and all the other sections referenced by them.

I'll try and work through all that but is the worst case fall back to (manually) disconnect the DNO earth and connect the local/TT earth? If so, at least I know the worst case fall back. Thanks for all your input BTW.
 
To have a consumer unit powered from a 32 amp plug and socket arrangement so items supplied from the consumer unit can either be plugged into a generator or the mains is the easy cheap method.

However even when powered from mains your looking at 32 amp maximum. Can up it to 63 amp.

But what ever is powered from that consumer unit will have to be within the mains supply even if not within the generator supply.

As you increase with cable size you also make it harder to unplug and plug in.

Having two 32 amp plugs and sockets may work one dedicated for the EV and other for the rest, it is possible.

So a small consumer unit (B) with essential services plugged into a 32 amp socket which also has a 32 amp socket outlet, so normal running consumer unit (B) plugged into one 32 amp socket on main consumer unit (A), and the EV charging plugged into another 32 amp socket from consumer unit (A), when there is a power cut the consumer unit (B) is unplugged from (A) and instead plugged into generator, and the EV charging point also unplugged from CU (A) and plugged into CU (B).

However there are some possible problems:-
1) If the EV charging point uses a current transformer to monitor whole house usage this needs to be considered.
2) When using the generator the generators earth rod will be used, this may mean the RCD becomes a primary protective device not secondary, so may need a type B RCD, it would need a risk assessment.
3) Should some one not reduce the EV charging rate during a power cut or forget to raise it again after it may cause problems.
4) The EV charging unit likely needs 207 to 253 volt, it is possible the generator will dip too much and the EV charging will lock out.

Take EV charging out of the equation and much easier.

Thanks for comprehensive input.

The EV charging is bottom of the priority list so I'll park that. I wasn't anticipating separate CU but a C/O switch connected top existing CUs - understand that needs to be sized for mains supply (so 100-125A) not just for genny.
 
It's a right can of worms doing any sort of permanent install of that type.
Your domestic gear is happiest with a nice smooth sine wave, the budget generators don't tend to produce such a thing- my little 3kw inverter gennie won't run the microwave properly without a nice big fat resistive load on as well (fan heater or 500w sunflood does the job).
Really depends if you're planning for occasional short-medium interruptions or full-on Mad Max. If the latter you'll want at least 1000 litres of fuel storage. If the former, buy some candles and a bottled gas heater and rearrange the plugging on the fridge & freezers so they're accessible and easy to swap onto a long extension lead.
Domestic lighting forget. Broadband, telly etc. treat yourself to an online UPS for the core systems (broadband modem, Sky box, telly) and another long extension cable.
EDIT If you're on cable TV/broadband, the street boxes require mains power and as far as I know it isn't a dedicated supply
 
It's a right can of worms doing any sort of permanent install of that type.
Your domestic gear is happiest with a nice smooth sine wave, the budget generators don't tend to produce such a thing- my little 3kw inverter gennie won't run the microwave properly without a nice big fat resistive load on as well (fan heater or 500w sunflood does the job).
Really depends if you're planning for occasional short-medium interruptions or full-on Mad Max. If the latter you'll want at least 1000 litres of fuel storage. If the former, buy some candles and a bottled gas heater and rearrange the plugging on the fridge & freezers so they're accessible and easy to swap onto a long extension lead.
Domestic lighting forget. Broadband, telly etc. treat yourself to an online UPS for the core systems (broadband modem, Sky box, telly) and another long extension cable.
EDIT If you're on cable TV/broadband, the street boxes require mains power and as far as I know it isn't a dedicated supply

Thanks for the input. All adds to the rich tapestry. :)
 
At what point does the earth connexion become sacrasanct?

The DNO provides L,N and possibly E. The electrician does everything following those 3 terminals.

If the property were instead run off a generator and no DNO supply existed, would those 3 terminals be provided as part of the electricians job?

Would it not be proper if those 2 sets of terminals sat side by side and the 3 wires moved between them as required?

Something like this:
upload_2022-2-25_0-33-1.png
 
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