baffled by pump over-run ??

[kev_1911]

hi all,
got a prob with pump over-run,after installing a worcester ri to an s-plan system with a salus wiring centre and control package the pump over-run wouldnt work,got sparky to check it over and it was re-wired as per the instructions from the salus tech team,still no joy,so sparky put it back to origonal wirng,this time the pump would'nt switch off,it ran 24/7, went through two pumps and a new zone valve head,still it ran and ran and ran,so yesterday and today have been spent messing about with it(me and mr sparky) now here is the problem/iffy bit....... we now have the wiring as told by a diff terch guy and it is now working the pump over-run that is,however it only works if the htng only is on or the water only is on it will not over-run if both are on,any clues please this has been driving us nuts for a few months now all wires seem correct and everything is working,salus just keep saying its a wiring fault yet its wired how they told us....am reaching for the rope here guys ready to throw it over the beam.........
thanks in advance....
kev.

 

[Agile]

I cannot guess what you have done but surely the pump should be wired directly to the boiler and the permanent live to the boiler.

Then it will work.

Its not always possible to blindly follow instructuctions.

There is probably a bit you have missed saying that the pump should be connected to the boiler when it has an over run.

Do you evey read the instructions in bed at night?

Tony

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

I can't see what you've done wrong either but hopefully I can help you to get closer to how I would sort it out.


Follow the boiler wiring instructions on page 24 HERE first.
Then your system wiring. Assuming you are using control centre Number 2 Do not fit wire #9 to the pump as this will now be under control of your boiler. The other #9 wire to the boiler remains as per those instructions

Use the same fused spur to supply the permanent live to your boiler AND the programmer

 

[D_Hailsham]

Follow the boiler wiring instructions on page 24 HERE first.

I think you mean HERE, the Installer Area? The Customer Area does not show wiring diagrams etc.

To the OP.

Select Products/Gas Boilers.
Scroll down and click Greenstar 12Ri.
Select Literature for this Product
Open Installation and Servicing Instructions

For some reason or other, if you try to supply the actual URL of the PDF within a post , it takes you to a dummy page; so you have to go the longwinded way

 

[kev_1911]

hi folks,
thanks for the replies,and the links,

a little more info on this system

its a salus 2 channel digital programmer ep 200

2 salus 2 port zoners

salus cyl stat

and existing digital room stat.

am back on this 1 tomorrow with newly printed wiring diags(ta for those) in hand,
so i will post back when its sorted.

 

[daytona]

is this the one?


http://www.salus-tech.com/manuals/S Plan wiring Diagram {10 Terminals}CP222.pdf

if so,i had a mare with one of those,cant remember why though,while ago now sorry

 

[simond]

You have wired it up wrong, the boiler has no idea whether its running hw or ch or both. It just takes a live wire to run.

Furthermore the boiler has no direct connection between the pump and the switched live. The pump is under the control of the boiler, nothing else.

I suggest you disconnect all your wiring, power up the boiler locally leaving the zone valves pinned open and electrically disconnected.. Connect the pump DIRECTLY to the Ri's terminals, with no other wiring, and watch it go.

That will prove the operation of the boiler and pump.

Thereafter you just have to wire it up correctly. I suspect some twin and earths are involved and assumptions have been made which are wrong.

PS: As Slug says, the diagram is wrong in respect of Pin 9.

 

[kev_1911]

thanks for replies everyone,

simon as in origonal post pump and boiler are working fine and so is the pump over-run now after shutdown, but the thing is it will only over-run when the ch is on only,or when the dhw is on only, it wont over-run when i put both on together this is what i cant figure out and nor can the spark who wired it up,

thanks again for all help

kev.

 

[Rob]

thanks for replies everyone,

simon as in origonal post pump and boiler are working fine and so is the pump over-run now after shutdown, but the thing is it will only over-run when the ch is on only,or when the dhw is on only, it wont over-run when i put both on together this is what i cant figure out and nor can the spark who wired it up,

thanks again for all help

kev.

Logic doesnt add up. The boiler controls the pump. Not external controls.

The overrun should occur when 230v S/L has ceased. Therefore what differnce does it make what the clock is set to

 

[twgas]

thanks for replies everyone,

simon as in origonal post pump and boiler are working fine and so is the pump over-run now after shutdown, but the thing is it will only over-run when the ch is on only,or when the dhw is on only, it wont over-run when i put both on together this is what i cant figure out and nor can the spark who wired it up,

thanks again for all help

kev.

the pump over run would not kick in when both hw and ch are on because by the nature of it they are on. pump overrun kicks in when prog or stats go off if both are on at prog then the chances of both going off at stats at the same time is all but nil.

 

[kev_1911]

hi mick
thanks for your input,i thought the same,however i did try and simulate the stats going off by manually turning them down, the result of this was that the zone valves shut but the pump stays on constantly,this only accurs when dhw and ch are on together, when on sep the pump overrun kicks and after 3 mins pumps goes off as it should,

cheers

kev.

 

[ChrisR]

Check the wiring.

WIth a meter on the SL input to the boiler, watch the voltage as you turn ch/wh on and off. It should only be 0v or 230V. Just maybe, you're getting funny voltages which are making the boiler do strange things.

 

[D_Hailsham]

it will only over-run when the ch is on only,or when the dhw is on only, it wont over-run when i put both on together

the pump over run would not kick in when both hw and ch are on because by the nature of it they are on. pump overrun kicks in when prog or stats go off if both are on at prog then the chances of both going off at stats at the same time is all but nil.

But, if the either stat is still calling for heat, the boiler will be ignited, so the pump would not be in over-run mode.

For the pump to go into over-run mode there must be NO voltage at the switched live. This is only true if:

(CH=off OR CH=satisfied) AND (HW=off OR HW=satisfied)

Kev_1911:

Do you have a meter? If so check the voltage at terminal 9 of the wiring centre with CH and HW on and both stats turned down. It should be 0 volts. Then check it with one stat at a time turned up. It should go to 230v as the stat clicks on.

Have you checked the wiring of both zone valves? The wiring shown in the Salus leaflet for the valve is wrong. The brown lead (the motor) should be connected to the switched output from the appropriate thermostat (3 and 7 on the wiring centre).Both Grey wires should be fed from the unswitched live wiring centre 6) . Orange wire is the feed to the boiler switched live (wiring centre 5 linked to 9).

It is also permissible to connect the grey wires to the appropriate switched output from the programmer (CH to wiring centre 4, HW to 8 ).

 

[keego]

Have you tried the Worcester tech line. I fitted a 24ri last month (Y plan system) & had a problem where the boiler would not switch off unless it finished on DHW, if it finished on CH then there was still 68v left on the switched live this voltage does not affect most boilers but the ri does not like it one bit. Fitting a capacitor to the wiring sorted the problem.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Have you tried the Worcester tech line. I fitted a 24ri last month (Y plan system) & had a problem where the boiler would not switch off unless it finished on DHW, if it finished on CH then there was still 68v left on the switched live this voltage does not affect most boilers but the ri does not like it one bit. Fitting a capacitor to the wiring sorted the problem.

This could only happen with a Y-plan; the OP has an S-Plan