Bathroom downlights have no earth?

[CaptainJack88]

I'm just about to swap out our bathroom downlights, primarily the one above the shower cubicle because its rusted with some Aurora M Pro's.

Whoever did the bathroom last, I'm not sure what they were playing at but the downlight that is already there is a standard, non IP65 GU10 lamp.

The cable going to it appears to be a white 2 core flex which has no earth..

Is this normal? I'm 100% sure that all light fittings, especially those above a shower should have an earth.

EDIT: Just looked at the other lights in the bathroom. All the same, GU10 holders, with white 2 core flex to them - no earth

The house was built in the 90's and the bathroom likely was redone at some point.

Any suggestions as for what to do?

 

[omega015]

2 core flex suggests it could be being fed via a transformer so that light fitting might be 12v. Can you first confirm if its 240v or being fed from a transformer?

EDIT: The bulb might give indication of voltage written on it if you don't have a multimeter or access to the void.

 

[CaptainJack88]

2 core flex suggests it could be being fed via a transformer so that light fitting might be 12v. Can you first confirm if its 240v or being fed from a transformer?

EDIT: The bulb might give indication of voltage if you don't have a multimeter or access to the void.

I didn't think you could buy Halogen GU10's that were 12V? I thought they were all MR16s?

I can't find my multimeter at the moment, however there are 2x GU10 Halogens and 1x Philips LED bulb in there. I'm sure its a 240v setup.
Behind one of the lights, I've just found the twin & earth grey cable which goes straight to a block connector and into the white flex. The earth has been snipped....

 

[omega015]

I overlooked the halogen/gu10 combination well in that case yup.... dodgy DIY job. Not all light fittings need an earth if they are double insulated etc... Cheaper light fittings don't usually have a space for the earth cable so lots of people just cut off the earth instead of leaving it in a connector block or something. If you can reach that block connector then replace with some T&E, connecting the earth and the auroras should have space in the connector to wire the earth into.

 

[CaptainJack88]

I overlooked the halogen/gu10 combination well in that case yup.... dodgy DIY job. Not all light fittings need an earth if they are double insulated blah blah. Cheaper light fittings don't usually have a space for the earth cable so lots of people just cut off the earth instead of leaving it in a connector block or something. If you can reach that block connector then replace with some T&E, connecting the earth and the auroras should have space in the connector to wire the earth into.

I'm not surprised at all by this, surprised they didn't burn the place down the amount of stuff we found when renovating..

I've found the T&E for the other 2, but the one above the shower. It's either clipped in somewhere or fixed into a jb. Only issue is I cant get into the void...

 

[omega015]

I would first double check that you get 240v at the shower light when you find your meter. Are you able to run a fresh cable from the shower light to the nearest other bathroom light or the junction box? If not then find out if the auroras need an earth or if they are just accommodating it in order to maintain connection throughout the circuit. If they don't need an earth then you might get away with wiring the aurora into the flex (not the best option) or choosing a different fitting for the shower that's 12v and having a transformer between the flex and t&e as that shouldn't require an earth. Do you know the diameter of the flex? 0.75mm, 1mm etc..?

 

[CaptainJack88]

I would first double check that you get 240v at the shower light when you find your meter. Are you able to run a fresh cable from the shower light to the nearest other bathroom light or the junction box? If not then find out if the auroras need an earth or if they are just accommodating it in order to maintain connection throughout the circuit. If they don't need an earth then you might get away with wiring the aurora into the flex (not the best option) or choosing a different fitting for the shower that's 12v and having a transformer between the flex and t&e as that shouldn't require an earth. Do you know the diameter of the flex? 0.75mm, 1mm etc..?

I can access the T&E for 2 of the lights, but the shower one seems to be either pinned or fixed to something. I can't get into the void above though unfortunately.

Looking at the wiring, they aren't linked directly together so I can only assume they fall back to a JB somewhere...which I can't access.

I'll have to fully turn off the electrics and get my hand up there to see where I can feel. I'm hoping they haven't screwed down a JB somewhere when they redid the bathroom.. Don't fancy having to cut more holes just to find JB that shouldn't be there in the first place

 

[omega015]

depending on the location of the lights and the direction of your joists you might be able to feed a new cable via the existing holes. If you cant see in the holes very well try a torch and compact mirror or use your phone and take some pictures in order to get a better idea what your working with.

 

[winston1]

I didn't think you could buy Halogen GU10's that were 12V? I thought they were all MR16s?

But most GU10 240v halogen lamps are MR16. MR 16 refers to the size of the multifacted reflector, nothing else.

 

[CaptainJack88]

But most GU10 240v halogen lamps are MR16. MR 16 refers to the size of the multifacted reflector, nothing else.

If we want to get technical, GU10 bases are commonly 240v and a GU5.3 base is commonly 12V. My bulbs are GU10 and are 240V.

Have you honestly ever heard anyone ask for a GU5.3? If you ask anywhere, even specialists for an MR16 bulb, you'll get given a 2 pin GU5.3

 

[winston1]

If we want to get technical, GU10 bases are commonly 240v and a GU5.3 base is commonly 12V. My bulbs are GU10 and are 240V.

Have you honestly ever heard anyone ask for a GU5.3? If you ask anywhere, even specialists for an MR16 bulb, you'll get given a 2 pin GU5.3

Another example of so called experts/specialists not knowing what they are selling.

 

[seasickstevie]

Went to an established independent elec wholesalers a while ago, and asked for Maintenance-free JBs. He thought I was making it up.

 

[CaptainJack88]

Another example of so called experts/specialists not knowing what they are selling.

I think it's a case of generalisation more than anything.

How many times have you heard, or probably even said something relating to a Hoover, when in fact it's a vacuum cleaner.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I have to agree with winston on this matter.

The fact is that the manufacturers are wrong to label their products like this.
We do not know why they do it.

If we do not correct posters (informatively) and then carry on with the thread using the correct terms then obviously we carry on with the thread using the wrong terms which, in the end, will mean some will then argue that because these terms have been used without correction for so long that they are now correct - which they never actually will be.

In another thread there was confusion on the part of a poster between voltage and wattage. Should that not have been corrected?
If not, where do we draw the line?

If a manufacturer labels a product 240W 50Hz, what would you think? Just accept it and carry on using the same terms?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

In another thread there was confusion on the part of a poster between voltage and wattage. Should that not have been corrected?

And another recent instance of voltage vs current.