bathroom extractor with pir sensor

[chamfer]

Hello folks
Would like to fit a extractor with pir sensor & timer
Can some one point me in the right direction regarding regs and circut diagrams

Does the extractor have to be on a fused switched socket
Fused switched socked inside or outside room?
Can you get extractor that spurs off lighting circuit?



Thanks in advance

Simon

 

[EFLImpudence]

Would like to fit a extractor with pir sensor & timer

Not a good idea.
It will go off when you sit down.
Although, not so bad with a timer.

//www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:fan

Does the extractor have to be on a fused switched socket

If the manufacturer demands it.
Buy one which doesn't.

Fused switched socked inside or outside room?

Normally fitted outside at high level.

Can you get extractor that spurs off lighting circuit?

They can't tell where the electricity comes from.

 

[chamfer]

Hello
Thanks for reply
I thought building regs demanded fused switched socket outside room?
Also the location for extractor is outside all zones

 

[EFLImpudence]

I thought building regs demanded fused switched socket outside room?

No, it's all down to the manufacturer.
There is no reason electrically other than normal requirements for a circuit.

A switch just has to be outside the zones but should be suitable for the environment. ???

Also the location for extractor is outside all zones

That's ok but they are allowed within - if suitable.

 

[chamfer]

Can you recommend a wall mounted extractor were the manufacturer does not insist on a fused switched socket. Needs to a required performance of 30.6 litres per second

 

[AndyPRK]

Fans are normally connected to the lightening circuit and have a 3 pole isolator

 

[chamfer]

Fans are normally connected to the lightening circuit and have a 3 pole isolator

Only if the manufacturer insists on a 3 pole isolator

 

[JohnW2]

I thought building regs demanded fused switched socket outside room?

No, it's all down to the manufacturer.

... at least until next year, when designers and electricians may be able to exert far more professional judgement and discretion...

Untitled

• JohnW2
• 6 Apr 2014
• 2

There is no reason electrically other than normal requirements for a circuit.

... that being an example of 'professional judgement and discretion'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I have just come across one instruction sheet which says the the fan should be connected via a switched spur with a 3A fuse. (U.K.ONLY)

Not seen that before so - just wrong and catch 22.

 

[JohnW2]

I have just come across one instruction sheet which says the the fan should be connected via a switched spur with a 3A fuse. (U.K.ONLY) ... Not seen that before so - just wrong and catch 22.

I haven't seen that before, either - and, as you say,it shows how silly/unnecessary it is.

Is the restriction to the UK perhaps because of perceived practicalities - since most other countries probably don't have a standard means (i.e. FCU) of inserting a 3A fuse into a circuit?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is the restriction to the UK perhaps because of perceived practicalities - since most other countries probably don't have a standard means (i.e. FCU) of inserting a 3A fuse into a circuit?

Even if it were, it still shows it isn't necessary.

 

[JohnW2]

Is the restriction to the UK perhaps because of perceived practicalities - since most other countries probably don't have a standard means (i.e. FCU) of inserting a 3A fuse into a circuit?

Even if it were, it still shows it isn't necessary.

Agreed, but if they're silly, they might try arguing that it is 'necessary' everywhere, but that the UK is only only place where appropriate accessories to implement it - so the rest of the world has to out up with an 'unsafe' situation

It is unnecessary, at least as far as the wiring is concerned. However, as we've discussed many times, some manufacturers probably have these 'requirements' for external fusing as a consequence of not having included adequate internal protection in their products.

Kind Regards, John

 

[chamfer]

Contacted my supplier this morning & received this response

Hi Simon

Unfortunately I can not recommend any, as using a spur is a part of the british regulations. If you do not follow manufacturer guidlines, your warranty will be invalid.

Sorry for not helping this time.

If the manufacturer demands I have to have a fused switched socket
can I place next to extractor inside bathroom out side all zones?
all will this go against building regs

 

[AndyPRK]

It's rare for fused spurs to be fitted for fans.

3 pole isolators are common though as they are handy to turn the fan off.

 

[JohnW2]

Contacted my supplier this morning & received this response:

Hi Simon, Unfortunately I can not recommend any, as using a spur is a part of the british regulations. If you do not follow manufacturer guidlines, your warranty will be invalid.

I fear that was predictable.

I do often wonder whether such nonsensical 'small print' has any meaning in law. Indeed, one wonders what they mean by 'warranty', since I feel pretty sure that their legal obligations (Sale of Goods Act etc.) cannot be removed by such small print.

The fact (which I would hope that a court would accept) is that a 3A fuse would only ever blow after, and as a result of a catastrophic failure in the fan - so they really could not rationally argue that the failure was in any way caused by the absence of the fuse.

One problem, at least for electricians (and unless/until the proposed changes in the regulations appear next year) is that the Wiring Regulations currently require that all equipment be installed "in accordance with manufacturer's instructions", so many probably feel obliged to do just that.

Kind Regards, John