Bathroom tile coming off on suspended floor

[masamune]

Two years ago I had the bathroom done to a very high standard with in an entirely new sanitary, tiles etc

The builder gave me a good quality finish all round. The only thing I had to revisit was some splitting sealant around the bathtub which I discussed on another post. However a bigger problem came up with some floor tiles.

The floor is suspended wood (1st floor), about six months ago one of the 30x60 tiles started making a hollow sound and happens to be the tile you step on when coming out of the bathtub. The grout begun cracking around the tile and now two adjacent tiles sound started making sounds too. I recall they used something like a ditra (orange) matting underneath.

I managed to get the builder round to take a look and said it was due to the pressure impact and the suspended floor below. I wonder why they never mention any of this when you do the job but only remember when something goes wrong. Said it would be a day's job and will use high quality glue. I have been chasing the guy for two months to come and fix it and now is not even replying.

I think it's fairly reasonable to expect the bathroom tiles to last more than just 2 years (lol)
It is not a small job since the tiles go under the bathtub face which has to be removed, tiles may crack (I have some spares) and it has to be re-glued, re-sealed, re-grouted.

Any thoughts on my next steps and whether I should just get someone else in to do it?

edit: a friend said that a builder refused to do tiles on suspended floor for his utility room when he quoted. I have seen many first floor bathrooms with floor tiles and cannot imagine they are supposed to start coming off if done well?

 

[vinn]

He is responsible - full stop. Due diligence is required when inspecting a site to give a quote - all factors that a professional should be aware of should be noticed and taken into account.

FWIW, its probably nothing to do with "pressure impact" whatever that is. Its a bad tile installation, and the only pressure around is the pressure he feels at having to do a free repair.

 

[Doggit]

Did the builder put any plywood down before the ditra mat. You can't tile straight onto floorboards as they will move, so even with a flexible adhesive, it'll go over time.

 

[L95]

Should of got a good tiler rather than a great builder

I think you might be better off ripping up the floor and having it relaid properly if he's only used Ditra matting as it will all go at some point.

 

[masamune]

He was recommended to me for his bathroom tiling. I pulled up the photo archive and had a look at some pics from the work.

I see plywood under the bathtub that seems to be coming from underneath the ditra mat. I can only assume he used it though as I have no pics pre-ditra mat being placed down.

If the floor needs redoing I guess we will have to take this to another level...

 

[Doggit]

How thick is the plywood, and how often is it screwed down. You may need to see if you can lift the loose tile, and check what he's done; rake out the grout round the tile, and see if you can lift it without damaging the adjacent tiles. His comments about the tile going on the pressure impact pont is a bit of a bullshyte comment I'm afraid.

 

[chappers]

As L95 says if its starting to go chances are it will all go over time.
Nowadays there seems to be a proliferation of unnecessary use of de-coupling mats, which at best are just a waste of money but at worst can cause more problems, as like every layer put down from subfloor to adhesive if the wrong stuff is used or incorrectly installed it's just another layer likely to fail.
Is there a good reason why he laid ditra, for example do you have underfloor heating.

 

[Doggit]

The underfloor mats are normally used for sideways thermal expansion, not for general movement, and I suspect your builder knew the general principles of a decoupling mat, but not the specifics of their use. I can't say with any certainty that the mat contributed to the problem, but it could be worth calling Ditras support line, and get their opinion.

 

[masamune]

How thick is the plywood, and how often is it screwed down. You may need to see if you can lift the loose tile, and check what he's done; rake out the grout round the tile, and see if you can lift it without damaging the adjacent tiles. His comments about the tile going on the pressure impact pont is a bit of a bullshyte comment I'm afraid.

It's not that clear from the pics unfortunately, lifting the loose tile means unscrewing and removing the entire bathtub facade (which is also tiled) as floor tiles go partially under.

Best to leave it for the repair stage...as and when it is decided?

 

[masamune]

As L95 says if its starting to go chances are it will all go over time.
Is there a good reason why he laid ditra, for example do you have underfloor heating.

This is sad if true although I'd prefer it done properly if not, rather than having to take tiles out every now and again.

So far it has only been one tile, I suspect the adjacent one(s) started giving way because of that first one but could be wrong. There is no underfloor heating (I wish so not sure why he used the matting. I thought it was meant for potential leaks.

I will try to post a couple of pics tonight.

 

[Doggit]

He'd have used tanking to stop leaks, but you'd normally do that with a shower rather than a bath.

 

[L95]

Get a tiler in to take a look at it. And I mean a decent tiler from sub-prep to the last bead of silicone kind of tiler. Just because a portfolio shows some decent aesthetics, doesn't mean that they can do a long lasting job. But at least it sounds like he tried to make the subfloor good.

 

[masamune]

Just because a portfolio shows some decent aesthetics, doesn't mean that they can do a long lasting job.

So true...if only I could test that before things start falling apart :/

Pic of the matt attached, you can see the plywood under the bathtub

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Suspended floors and large tiles simply don't go together; you're fighting physics at every step.

 

[masamune]

Suspended floors and large tiles simply don't go together; you're fighting physics at every step.

I have seen a number of above ground floor bathrooms laid with large tiles, new build and older houses. Are you saying that all of these are going to come off sooner or later?