Bathroom tiling

[Richard C]

Sgt Bilkco, just a little word of warning in that we currently seem to have a lot of “tiling experts” on the forum. Whilst there will always be personal preference & usually more than one way to skin a cat, some of the advice you’ve been given is conflicting & some may well lead to disappointment.

I would reiterate my first advice; read the tiling sticky, read the relevant archive posts, read the manufacturers recomendations & decide which way is best for you; in the end it comes down to how long you want it to last & your budget.

 

[Gobo]

Sgt Bilkco, just a little word of warning in that we currently seem to have a lot of “tiling experts” on the forum. Whilst there will always be personal preference & usually more than one way to skin a cat, some of the advice you’ve been given is conflicting & some may well lead to disappointment.

I would reiterate my first advice; read the tiling sticky, read the relevant archive posts, read the manufacturers recommendations & decide which way is best for you; in the end it comes down to how long you want it to last & your budget.

The reason for having the forum is to get different opinions and ideas, going by your advise there'd be no point posting, you may as well just follow guides and the archives. Your always going to get different and sometimes conflicting advise (more than one way to skin a cat).

I'm sure in this case Sgt Bilko will be able to use the advise given how he wants to get the best results for him.

All the best Gob's

 

[Richard C]

going by your advise there'd be no point posting, you may as well just follow guides and the archives.

If you re-read my posts you will see I did give advice; I didn’t just refer the OP to the sticky, guides & archive posts but I did suggest he read these to give more understanding & a little self education.

Your always going to get different and sometimes conflicting advise (more than one way to skin a cat).

Think that’s what I said; nothing wrong with different approaches as long as they give equally (or nearly) as good results.

I'm sure in this case Sgt Bilko will be able to use the advise given how he wants to get the best results for him.

I’m sure he will. I can see from your posts that you seem to have some product knowledge & experience but, in my book, there are just some things you don’t do if you want the job to last; one of those is tiling over chipboard (let alone 2nd hand chipboard!) & the other is using only 6mm ply as an overboard. I’d agree it’s only a small area but that’s even more of a reason not to skimp.

 

[Gobo]

If you read my posts all I was doing was helping someone who isn't a professional and is unsure and wants the job to be as easy and painless as possible.
Never said anything about 6mm ply, just trying to give the guy confidence that he doesn't have to rip his whole floor up, and butt out from joists (likely to make floor less stable) just to lie 3m² on a floor that was previously tiled with no problems at all!

 

[bathstyle]

Richard c doesn't like over boarding he prefers to do it properly by ripping up the floor and tiling directly onto 18mm ply with a single part......errrrrr

 

[Richard C]

Richard c doesn't like over boarding he prefers to do it properly by ripping up the floor and tiling directly onto 18mm ply with a single part......errrrrr

You do keep having a pop don’t you; what have I done to tweak your apron this time . Being a "Topps Tile Fitter", you of all people should know it depends on local circumstances; joist span, size/spacing etc. all comes down to how much flex there is in the floor. Well fixed 18mm is sufficient in most cases but sometimes it’s got to be 25mm; I said I prefer not to overboard, I didn’t say I never use it. Absolutely nothing wrong with Rapidset Flexible & Superflex; never had a failure yet.

 

[bathstyle]

Phone Bal and ask them, they will say point blank that it is wrong, I strongly advice against tiling directly onto 18mm ply onto bare joists, if the joists move, the tiles will fail.

The company I used to work for many years ago used to tile onto 9mm ply overboard, never a failure, would we do it now, No.

A failure using 18mm ply is unlikely but will happen in some instances therefore manufacturers advise against it.

 

[Richard C]

Phone Bal and ask them, they will say point blank that it is wrong, I strongly advice against tiling directly onto 18mm ply onto bare joists, if the joists move, the tiles will fail.

Lifted directly from BAL technical website;

Question;
Can timber floors be tiled?
Answer;
Yes. Provided that they are capable of carrying the additional load, and are sufficiently stiff. To provide extra rigidity, noggings should be fitted between joists, as recommended in BS 5385-3. Alternatively, fix exterior grade or marine grade plywood (min. 15mm thick) over existing boards. Check that there is adequate ventilation and a damp-proof course. [See page 13 of the BAL Sitework Guidance literature for base preparation details of timber floors - including those with and without an overlay]. If direct fixing is possible, remove all traces of previous finishes (stain, varnish) before tiling. Lay a solid bed of BAL Fastflex Adhesive, ideally 3-4mm thick. If fixing to an overlaid timber floor, lay a solid bed of BAL Single Part Flexible Adhesive or BAL Rapidset Flexible Adhesive, ensuring NO voids left underneath tile.

As I said, I’ve never had a single failure where I've used Rapidset Flexible & Superflex.

The company I used to work for many years ago used to tile onto 9mm ply overboard, never a failure, would we do it now, No.

No & I never said I would either. If I have to overboard, I only use 12mm minimum; what’s your point?

A failure using 18mm ply is unlikely but will happen in some instances therefore manufacturers advise against it.

They will always play it safe & recommend 25mm. I’l repeat what I said again; it’s down to local assesment of the floor construction, 18mm is sufficient in most casses but sometimes 25mm is best; the skill comes in making the correct assesment & my backgound means I have the experience to do so.

 

[bathstyle]

Elastomeric adhesive required when no overboarding is done, that's tiling directly onto Chipboard flooring, 18mm ply or even 25mm ply.

You can't argue with the facts, give Bal a call they will back me up.

I feel that Ditra is the best choice for preparing the 18 or 25mm ply or even tile backerboard glued and screwed. It holds it all together which will prevent any failure.

As said, you have joints with your 18 or 25mm ply, the joists move and you have a weak spot.

Also, Ply is not the best surface to tile onto, many tilers will only tile onto a backerboard, which is by far a superior product.

As a Tiler you need to move on and adapt, there's new products coming out all the time, we will look back and laugh at tiling onto Ply in 5 years time, nobody will do it at all

 

[tictic]

not wanting to the rock the boat ere..

i have been using backerboards or similar for 99% of my jobs now, use ply if i have to strip back to joists then i would lay 18mm ply then overboard with 6mm b/boards.or 12mmply/6mm or 12mm b/boards.
i have had a number off failures in the past with the wbp ply due to contamination in ply.
i wouldnt like to have lifted those failures if i had joists/ply/ tiles.. likley damage the joists so would have had to replace these.
but evey "tile expert" as their own method of tf..

but totaly agree with bathstyle wbp ply is being phased out of tiling in favour of new products that have been "tried and tested" and are up to spec with BS.

 

[tictic]

not wanting to the rock the boat ere..

i have been using backerboards or similar for 99% of my jobs now, use ply if i have to strip back to joists then i would lay 18mm ply then overboard with 6mm b/boards.or 12mmply/6mm or 12mm b/boards.
i have had a number off failures in the past with the wbp ply due to contamination in ply.
i wouldnt like to have lifted those failures if i had joists/ply/ tiles.. likley damage the joists so would have had to replace these.
but evey "tile expert" as their own method of tf..

but totaly agree with bathstyle wbp ply is being phased out of tiling in favour of new products that have been "tried and tested" and are up to spec with BS.

 

[tictic]

oops two for the price of one there....


totally carp on these computers an my tiling is even worse...

 

[Richard C]

As a Tiler you need to move on and adapt, there's new products coming out all the time, we will look back and laugh at tiling onto Ply in 5 years time, nobody will do it at all

Thanks for that advice; your absolutely correct, anyone that doesn’t move on & adapt wont survive & doesn’t deserve to. I am fully aware of the merits & properties of tile backer boards & I do use them on wall applications, as my other posts will indicate but to judge in isolation is taking it out of context; as I probably did with Gobo

Thus far, I have not used them on floors because I am somehwat suspisious about the structural rigidity of some & the brittleness of others. OK if your overboarding & some are probably better than ply, if not rather more expensive; but given my prefernece for starting with a clean slate, why bother when you can achieve the same result with a new & well fixed WBP floor!

As I’ve said previously, your obviously very knowledgeable & an asset to this forum but I dont really understand why you feel the need to continually have a pop at me & post condecending comments with no real foundation; it really isn’t necessary or justified.

 

[bathstyle]

Don't be so sensitive, with regard to my advise, I'm gonna say exactly what I want on this forum , I'm not gonna 4ussy foot round you because you take offense if someone so much as passes wind when you're in the same room.

You need to accept that tiling straight onto 18mm ply is not great practise, i'm not gonna expalin why again as it has been written several times, accept what I have said, manufacturers agree with it, Tic tic also overboards after fixing ply to joists.

Do yourself a favour and phone Bal on Monday morning, their technicians will explain exactly why you shouldn't do it, then send your apalogy via PM

 

[tictic]

ur spelling is worse than mine..

mine.."evey"
yours.."apalogy"