Biasi riva compact M90E lockout problem

[coombs]

Over the last few weeks the boiler has started playing up. Working fine and then for some reason goes into lockout - red light is on the front panel is on and the green light at the end is flashing quickly. Sometimes the boiler will fire up just by pressing the red button on the front and sometimes it won't ignite at all. It could stay on for half an hour or all day with no sort of pattern. The fan works whatever. The temperature gauge on the front does not work (I don't know if this is linked) and it is reading about 1 half bar. The first plumber said it was 'kettleing' and said the whole system needed a powerflush so got a second opinion. The second said it didn't need a power flush as all the rads were hot all over. He eventually said after various testing it was down to the gas valve so replaced that. The boiler was fine for about 24 hours and then went into lockout again. Spoke to him this morning and he is now suggesting the pcb. Does anyone else have any ideas as we have just spent close to £250 for a new gas valve to be fitted and it could be very expensive by what could be a process of elimination. Thanks

 

[transam]

There are a 2 more diagnostic lights on the left hand side , of the boiler under an access panel , these diagnostic lights will flash in a particular sequence that might narrow the actual fault down , however the single visible green light flashing approx 4 times a sec , indicates , empty circuit , no flow of water , excessive temp e,g high limit or overheat stat activated , faulty temp probe , or lack of burner ignition , an over heat stat if activated on this boiler will cut off the power supply to the gas valve thus causing ign lock out , however I would guess as the fault is intermittent that you have a fault with the ign pcb ??????

 

[coombs]

There are a 2 more diagnostic lights on the left hand side , of the boiler under an access panel , these diagnostic lights will flash in a particular sequence that might narrow the actual fault down , however the single visible green light flashing approx 4 times a sec , indicates , empty circuit , no flow of water , excessive temp e,g high limit or overheat stat activated , faulty temp probe , or lack of burner ignition , an over heat stat if activated on this boiler will cut off the power supply to the gas valve thus causing ign lock out , however I would guess as the fault is intermittent that you have a fault with the ign pcb ??????

Thanks
I have left the boiler over night switched off manualy with the left of the four grey buttons on the front ( we don't use the timer just this to turn on and off). The right of the 2 dials was set at 0 and the red light was on.

This morning
1 -green light flashing very slowly.
2 - turned the right hand dial to the second mark going clockwise, green light flashes quicker about once a second.
3 -press red button to eliminate red light
4 -press 'on' button and can hear clicking and loudish fan noise
5 -after a few seconds boiler locks out, red light comes on and there is still a fan noise but a lot quieter. The green light then starts flashing quickly.

At no point in any of this do any other lights light up in the inspection panel. It was basically doing the same thing before the plumber decided it was the gas valve and it did start as soon as he changed it. I have now not been able to start it since about 4 yesterday.

 

[Agile]

My trade colleagues will not like me for saying this but you should not have paid for a wrong diagnosis or for a part which was not required.

Few people seem to understand this or to defend this simple expectation.

My advice would be to ask him to refund the £250 and get someone else who can properly diagnose the fault. We would have charged less that that !

Tony

 

[coombs]

My trade colleagues will not like me for saying this but you should not have paid for a wrong diagnosis or for a part which was not required.

Few people seem to understand this or to defend this simple expectation.

My advice would be to ask him to refund the £250 and get someone else who can properly diagnose the fault. We would have charged less that that !

Tony

I have suggested this yesterday when I spoke to him th at maybe the gas valve was not at fault and he is sticking to the fact that it was and we must hve another problem. For an hour diagnosing and just over another hour fitting/setting up the valve he charged £100 - the valve was £135 inc vat to buy. I am waiting for him to come back today.

 

[Agile]

If the gas valve was at fault it would have solved the problem!

It has probably been the PCB all along. Get him to replace that and put the old gas valve back in.

PCB is cheaper than the gas valve so you should not pay him any more.

Tony

 

[coombs]

If the gas valve was at fault it would have solved the problem!

It has probably been the PCB all along. Get him to replace that and put the old gas valve back in.

PCB is cheaper than the gas valve so you should not pay him any more.

Tony

Thanks Tony.
Makes sence so will try it. Only problem is I paid for the new gas valve directly from the shop and they probably won't take it back.

I am looking for a part number in the manual for the p.c.b , but all I can find is 'electronic regulation p.c.b, part number BI 1515 104' which I am not sure is the right part. Could you advise on this?

 

[Agile]

People who are not sure of their diagnosis often do that to avoid losing their money when you refuse to pay for a part which does not fix the fault.

You do seem to have chosen a cowboy !

The ignition PCB ends in 101. Probably the same first part of the number. About £106.

Tony

 

[coombs]

People who are not sure of their diagnosis often do that to avoid losing their money when you refuse to pay for a part which does not fix the fault.

You do seem to have chosen a cowboy !

The ignition PCB ends in 101. Probably the same first part of the number. About £106.

Tony

I have only found the previous mentioned item with 'pcb' in the description. I have found 'full sequence ignition device BI 1305 101'. Sorry for sounding thick but just want to get it right this time.Thanks

 

[coombs]

People who are not sure of their diagnosis often do that to avoid losing their money when you refuse to pay for a part which does not fix the fault.

You do seem to have chosen a cowboy !

The ignition PCB ends in 101. Probably the same first part of the number. About £106.

Tony

I have only found the previous mentioned item with 'pcb' in the description. I have found 'full sequence ignition device BI 1305 101'. Sorry for sounding thick but just want to get it right this time.Thanks

UPDATE.
Plumber has been back. He is maintaining that the gas valve was faulty - he tested it and said it was an open circuit which is why he changed it. Today, on trying to start it again it fired up once when he just had a check of the wires on the pcb boards, so thought it could be a loose connection and put everything back together. Of course once together it wouldn't fire again. He has also noticed that the pin on the diverter valve is stuck. Since it would not start and he was out of time, I suggested that I would remove the cover of the diverter valve to see if the pin is free moving. Off of the boiler it moves freely in the cover (no debris inside) and the diafram is intact but when fitted back into postion and the boiler re filled, the pin is stuck in it's out postion. Before he went he suggested that if the pin was stuck out for some time it could have cooked one of the pcb boards but wasn't sure which one.
By having a careful prod on the boards, something has happened and I have now fired up the boiler and it seems to be working fine, but I am not sure how long it will stay on before going back to lockout. And now I have the problem of the sticking out pin which could be the cause of everything? Also have noticed that when the bolier is running and you remove the plastic switch housing from the diverter valve (away from the stuck out pin) the boiler shuts down - is this usual ?
Hope all this makes sence

 

[Agile]

You will be confusing people. Thats not the diverter valve but the system flow switch.

Due to something of a design error its not failsafe and if the pin is stuck out the boiler will still work. But it will not protect the boiler against dry firing. The spring goes between the outer cover and the mushroom. I think you must have put it together wrongly.

The ignition PCB is indeed BI 1305101.

Do you have the old gas valve? Clever trick removing it so you cannot test it to confirm that it was working.

He seems to be an experienced cowboy with all the answers!

Tony

 

[coombs]

You will be confusing people. Thats not the diverter valve but the system flow switch.

Due to something of a design error its not failsafe and if the pin is stuck out the boiler will still work. But it will not protect the boiler against dry firing. The spring goes between the outer cover and the mushroom. I think you must have put it together wrongly.

The ignition PCB is indeed BI 1305101.

Do you have the old gas valve? Clever trick removing it so you cannot test it to confirm that it was working.

He seems to be an experienced cowboy with all the answers!

Tony

I am sorry if it may be confusing.
I can confirm the spring IS between the the outer cover and the mushroom and was moving freely until placed back on the boiler.
I still have the old gas valve.
The boiler has now stayed on since 6 last night.

I can also confirm for the moment at least that by looking through the plastic micro switch housing, that boiler ON - the pin is out and triggering the switch. Boiler OFF - the pin releases switch. Boiler OFF and call for hot water, pin comes out and triggers switch and goes back in when hot water tap turned off.

As I say all seems to be working fine at the moment.

 

[Agile]

There are two coils on the gas valve. Can you measure the resistance which is on the bottom two pins and the second up and the top as orientated with the blue coil at the top? That will confirm its was indeed faulty.

You have now confused me about the flow switch. First you said it was jammed but now you say its moving correctly? What has changed?

Tony

 

[coombs]

There are two coils on the gas valve. Can you measure the resistance which is on the bottom two pins and the second up and the top as orientated with the blue coil at the top? That will confirm its was indeed faulty.

You have now confused me about the flow switch. First you said it was jammed but now you say its moving correctly? What has changed?

Tony

OK. I will have to get someone else to do this as I don't have the equipment. If it means me going back to the shop I bought the new one from I will do so.
Regarding the flow switch, it was the plumber who told me the pin was jammed in the out position so I carried the afore mentioned procedure. Now I have the working for the minute, it seems to be functioning as it should.

 

[IKJ]

There are two coils on the gas valve. Can you measure the resistance which is on the bottom two pins and the second up and the top as orientated with the blue coil at the top? That will confirm its was indeed faulty.

You have now confused me about the flow switch. First you said it was jammed but now you say its moving correctly? What has changed?

Tony

OK. I will have to get someone else to do this as I don't have the equipment. If it means me going back to the shop I bought the new one from I will do so.
Regarding the flow switch, it was the plumber who told me the pin was jammed in the out position so I carried the afore mentioned procedure. Now I have the working for the minute, it seems to be functioning as it should.

Thats the very same test that I did tony. and I also showed the op that the primary pin was stuck out he saw it for himself and also saw me test the gas valve.