BS7671 2006 vs 2008

[deejaybee101]

Hi All,

I could do with some advice on the key differences between the 2006 and 2008 versions of the IEE wiring regulations if anyone would be willing to help-

Essentially I recently moved into a 60's property, which had not been electrically modernised and had the consumer unit and lighting circuits (2 wire to 3 wire) replaced and a few extra sockets added (in total work took place in all the awkward areas- the kitchen, bathroom and externally). The contractor in question was an ex-electrician friend who was a little down on his luck, and was only certified to 2006 regs. Nontheless he filled out an appropraite installation certificate, and told us that buildings control would have to verify it's suitability.

The bottom line is that BC(contrator) have rejected it, without physical inspection, stating that the work was done to 2006 vs 2008 regs. I think the final report came out at 8 words, which I personally find slightly galling for a £95 outlay! I was at least expecting a series of points to be addressed to be highlighted. My question, finally: are the changes between 2006/2008 of such magnitude that this "brief" rejection is justified?

Would someone be able to highlight the key differences between the regs as referenced to:

- lighting circuits: replacing 2 wire with 3 wire
- CU: replacement of wire fuses with modern breakers
- addition of external lights
- Additional sockets on the ringmains. (wiring still original)

clearly I am hopefully intending to show that the differences are immaterial to the installation in question- Apologies for the long post, thank you if you've got this far- any help would be much appreciated!

Kind regards

 

[mfarrow]

The main difference will be that 30mA RCD protection is now required on all circuits where the cables are installed less than 50mm below the surface, and these are not provided with additional mechanical protection or earthed conduit/SWA.

Socket circuits, and those in locations containing a bath/shower must be 30mA RCD protected regardless.

It will be frowned upon if only one 30mA RCD protects the whole installation.

Live and neutral colours have changed from red and black to brown and blue respectively, though original wiring can be used with warning label at CU.

 

[Taylortwocities]

If you go to to the DIYNOT WIKI

here: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:17th

You will find links to sites that show changes for the 17th.

You have opened a can of worms with your LABC and they are quite right. The work must be done to the new regulations. There are major changes to RCD protection and this is now required for all circuits.
You'll probably now end up paying twice for the job as you'll need to get someone in to get it all up to 17th edition standard.

Sounds like your ex-electrician has transferred his bad luck to you

Sorry

 

[ColJack]

you could try your luck and write them a letter pointing out that BS 7671:2008 is not a statutory regulation and that it is not law that you follow it.
you can wire your house to any standard you choose as long as it is done safely..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That may have been a possible approach if the procedure had been properly followed, i.e. an application made for Building Regulations approval before the work started, and on the application a statement that Part P would be complied with by working to BS 7671:2001(2004).

Now, having done the work without prior approval, or having done it after applying for approval on a different basis, LABC hold all the cards.

 

[ColJack]

never had to fill in a Part P form, does it actually ask what regulations you'll be wiring it to?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Me neither.

It's just an application like any other - you describe the work that you want to do, with drawings if needed, and describe how you will comply with the applicable Building Regulations, with drawings if needed.

Quite a few LABCs try to trick people by telling them what to put on their application, and then, too late, your DIYer finds that he got his approval on the basis that the work would be done by an electrician qualified to certify BS 7671 compliance...

 

[Paul_C]

Big mistake to get LABC involved at great expense in the first place, but too late now, obviously.

What was actually on the form you sent in about the work? As ColJack points out, following BS7671 is not mandatory, so unless you said it would be followed, the differences between the 16th & 17th editions aren't really going to have much bearing on it.

 

[deejaybee101]

Thank all, and a few answers:

- On the form I filled in (here: http://www.winchester.gov.uk/Documents/BuildingControl/BC0072-22230 building notice.pdf) I simply stated that I wished the installation to be inspected (without testing), and enclose an appropriate fee. I didn't state that BS7671 had been followed, but included the installation and testing certificate that had been supplied

- both lighting and ringmain circuits are protected with a single 30mA RCD each

- each individual circuit with this has it's own MCB.

- Wiring is of the appropriate 2008 colouring

- As I understand it the work in the kitchen, bathroom and exterior mandated informing LABC, but I have to admit I was expecting a slightly more constructive, rather than tickbox, attitude from them... WIth regards to ColJack's point, I kinda agree; surely the concern of LABC ought to be that the installation is now substantially safer than the old wire fuse and zero-earth one...? or is that spectacularly naive?!

Does that help clarify?

 

[AndyPRK]

Is there one or two RCD;s in the consumer unit ?

How many test buttons are there on the whole consumer unit ?

 

[bongos]

When you notify electrical work to the LABC and pay them a fee, they should inspect the work and test it at their expense. This is what they are required to do.

However many LABC's say that if you require testing then you must pay an additional fee to have them test (incorrect) or pay a registered electrician to test (what would have been the point of notifying in the first place then).

The work does not have to be completed to the UK wiring regulations (while it usually would, it does not have to be).

But as already been suggested because you did not notify the work before starting as required the LABC have got you over a barrel.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

DJB - a few observations...

1. That document did not commit you to working to any version of BS 7671, or to using an electrician who could issue a BS 7671 EIC.
2. The Building Regulations impose no requirement to work to any version of BS 7671, and actually recognise the continuing existence of the 2001(2004) edition by still to this day referencing it in a definition.
3. The current version of Approved Document P says that one way of achieving compliance with Part P is to work to BS 7671:2001.

I suggest you go back to the council and highlight those facts with them, remind them that the only legal requirement is that reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury, and that as the work complied with one of the standards recognised in Approved Document P you have met that requirement, and that therefore you expect them to issue your completion certificate.

You might like to summarise your case, and make those points, in a letter to the Borough Solicitor.

Try to leave them in no doubt that if they don't provide one you will take them to court, where, given 1-3 above, they will have a very hard time proving that you did not comply with P1.

 

[ericmark]

I would agree with BAS although the link failed when I tried it.

I have also had problems. My father's builder ran off leaving work incomplete so my son and I finished it off and informed LABC as council would be involved anyway as it was all being done for my disabled mother.

The inspector would not accept the paperwork from my son who held PLI and has C&G 2381 (as it was then) and C&G 2391 but on talking to me he would accept it from me as I had a degree in Electrical/Electronic engineering which since I also hold C&G 2381 (as it was then) and C&G 2391 I know has no bearing at all on my ability to inspect and test.

He also admitted he did not know the regulations on electrics that was not his area of training and in the main that is the problem. In real terms you or the electrician doing need to talk one to one with the inspector and then likely you will get what you need.

 

[nozspark]

Could it be that the OP's mate actually did a 17th ed install, but then certified it on a 16th ed form????

OP...is there any way you could scan your certificate (blanking out names and addresses) and post them on here??

 

[riveralt]

DJB - a few observations...

1. That document did not commit you to working to any version of BS 7671, or to using an electrician who could issue a BS 7671 EIC.
2. The Building Regulations impose no requirement to work to any version of BS 7671, and actually recognise the continuing existence of the 2001(2004) edition by still to this day referencing it in a definition.
3. The current version of Approved Document P says that one way of achieving compliance with Part P is to work to BS 7671:2001.

Regarding (3) just remember that the Part P goes on to state ' as amended or in any equivalent standard'

I'm afraid that while you may feel you have a case in court the LABC will simply refer to the current BS7671 17th edition regulations as the 'amended ... equivalent standard'.

Consequently Additional protection on bathroom and socket circuits et al are required as per the 17th edition and the LABC have every right to judge the work done on your property against the current regulations only.

If you do take the advice and go to court the costs associated with such action will invariably exceed the costs of getting an electrician in to do the work properly.