That's the Amazon price - but, interestingly, the majority of the other sellers in that list appear to have prices (for both new and used copies) of around £90 (~$135)
Kind Regards, John
BS7671:2008(2015) - Cmin=0.95 and no other obvious surprises
- Thread starter JohnW2
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Kind Regards, John
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My point is that if you had the blue 16th edn regs you could download an amendment document free off the IET site, paste it in and you would then have the info which was in the 16th brown book.
Regarding the regulation numbers, if we are to buy the whole shebang again every time they make changes which is every couple of years then I don't see the point of keeping the same edn number, they may as well instead of having 17th edn regs including corrigendum, amd 1, 2 and 3 just make it the 18th edn.
Fair enough if it were only a few £s, but by the time we buy the reg book, OSG, guidance documents we are talking a lot of money.
That's obviously true. As far as users are concerned, it's essentially a semantic question as to whether one talks about 17th ed., 17th ed. + Amd1, 17th ed. +Amd2 and 17th ed. + Amd3 or 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th. I presume that, in the eyes of IET/BSI/JPEL, a 'new edition' is much more of a 'complete re-write' than 'an amendment' represents, but that's clearly an essentially arbitrary decision which, as I said, is really of no relevance to users who have to buy the whole thing, whatever it's called, every time.
However, as I said before, particularly in the case of the current Amd3, so many pages are affected that attempting to 'paste in' the amendments would not really be practical. As others have said, that would only really be practical with a loose-leaf format and, even then, if a high proportion of pages were involved, the cost would probably not be that much less than a whole new 'book' - not to mention uncertainties as to whether or not all the changed pages had, in fact, been substituted.
As for the actual money (for BS7671, OSG, GN3 etc.), we're probably talking about an amount, once every couple of years, equivalent to an electrician filling up his van with fuel a couple of times.
Kind Regards, John
Even less when you trade in the old versions.
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That would be incredibly naive - can't think of an example off the top of my head, but I've certainly come across situations where regulations reference publications (eg BSs) which means a requirement to buy expensive documents in order to know what the law says.
I'm not sure what you're suggesting would be naive. Some regulation is entirely (UK and/or EU) legislation-based, without reliance on any third-party documents. I wasn't suggesting that electrical matters should be handled in that way but, rather, was merely pointing out that it is because it isn't done like that that we have to pay for the 'third party documents'.
Kind Regards, John
It is very rare for compliance with standards to be required by law. One example is folding pushchairs, which have to carry the Kitemark to be sold, guaranteeing BSI Product Services a revenue stream. Then there are 13A plugs, and their fuses...
Indeed so. However, there are many situations, like electrical work, in which the law is very general/vague/whatever and the only way in which most people can really attempt to demonstrate that they have complied with that 'vague' law is by complying with Standards, rules/regulations of trade bodies or whatever.
Although it's the case with some fields in which I've worked, and although I may be wrong, I think it's probably more the exception than the rule for a 'full set of detailed rules' for the regulation of an industry to exist in legislation (or related government-produced documents).
Kind Regards, John
Quite right too. Every time politicians dabble in engineering, they get it wrong. It's also a lot quicker to revise a standard to reflect changes in technology, hence the EU's New Approach.
True - but, of course, and although it commonly is, regulation isn't necessary primarily to do with engineering or technology. ... and, of course, when there are government-imposed rules/regulations, they most often derive from a 'government agency' which is fairly distanced from 'politicians' and government in the way we normally think of them. In a sense, it's a bit like the reliance (for regulation) on third-party Standards etc. (like BS7671), but with the documents produced by the government agencies usually being accessible without cost.
Kind Regards, John
It's more than a "hobby purchase".
Well, one knows what scousespark means - if a DIYer is not happy with the price (of essential documents, tools, equipment etc.), then (s)he should find some other 'hobby' and not attempt to undertake DIY electrical work. That is in contrast to the professional electrician who (one hopes!!) has to accept that they have no choice but to pay for the essential 'tools of their trade'.
Kind Regards, John
Even if an activity is voluntary that does not mean I'm not entitled to complain about the price.
I like to go to the theatre - I don't have to, plenty of people never do. I choose to, but I still think I am perfectly entitled to object to booking fees.
I like to go to the theatre - I don't have to, plenty of people never do. I choose to, but I still think I am perfectly entitled to object to booking fees.
Of course. Whether the activity is voluntary or not, anyone has the right to 'complain' about the price.
Indeed, it's obviously sometimes the case that some people choose (or are 'forced') not to participate in a certain activity, even though they would like to, because the cost is prohibitive. There are a good few things that I would like to do if I could afford to, but "don't because I can't" - and I'm sure that the same is true of many/most of us. Given finite means, we all have to make choices - BS7671+OSG+GN3 etc. probably represents a cost, every couple of years, comparable with that of a decent meal for two (or for one with some decent wine!), a theatre (or other sports/entertainment) ticket or two, a night in a fairly modest hotel or a tank or two of vehicle fuel. Perhaps more to the point, for those who undertake electrical DIY to save money, one wouldn't get many hours of an electrician's time for the cost of those documents.
Kind Regards, John
Indeed.
And with luck/diligence on eBay, test equipment can be had for the price of a seat upgrade on a holiday flight.
And with luck/diligence on eBay, test equipment can be had for the price of a seat upgrade on a holiday flight.
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