Bt phone not ringing. Ideas?

[flyingsparks]

Landline phone is not ringing. Tried various phones analogue and digital. Ringers are on, and not on silent. Changed the master point 3 times! Checked the polarity. Nothing seems to get the phone to ring. It rings in the ear piece of the mobile and you can answer it ok but just wondered before I call bt if there is any other things to try which I may have missed? I am allowed to have changed the bt master point, or will they say its theirs and charge me for doing that?

 

[sparkwright]

Is the telephone plugged into the master socket when you are trying it?

It needs to be.

I believe the telephone company can test the line without coming round, over the phone.

If they do come round to investigate the fault, and your telephone is found to be faulty, you will be charged.

How have you connected the new master socket?

But from what you have said, it sounds like a fault their side.

 

[ericmark]

From memory the ring is done by reversing polarity and requires the 4 th terminal of the master socket to work. There is a capacitor and resistor network in the master socket.

The BT or rather Open Reach master socket is a double unit which allows one to remove the section which connects the rest of the phone sockets of the house so you can test the incoming line with all house internals disconnected.

Only the older phones use the ringer bit of the line. They are marked in REN and there is a maximum of 5 REN on the line which is the amount of energy stored by the ringing capacitor on the master socket.

Cordless phones only need pins 2 and 5 connecting and don't use pin 4 used for the rings the same applies for modems.

Polarity does matter for ringing I remember my fax machine swapped the polarity and I had to make an adaptor to swap it back so the older phones would ring.

Early fax machines had a signal problem and all phones had to go through the fax machine and were turned off by the fax machine when a fax was detected. Today that is no longer the case. The fax plugs in parallel with other phones not in series as in the old days.

Fax is rather old anyway being a 19th century invention was invented before Morse code.

From memory voltage on phone line around 50 volt which is why we need special router which swaps the voltage to a lower one for the LAN system.

 

[Monkeh]

From memory voltage on phone line around 50 volt which is why we need special router which swaps the voltage to a lower one for the LAN system.

What?

 

[ericmark]

From memory voltage on phone line around 50 volt which is why we need special router which swaps the voltage to a lower one for the LAN system.

What?

There are two common routers. Those used with cable TV have same voltage in and out and are not suitable for those using telephone lines because of the higher voltages used. There is a special router designed for telephone line use which isolates the LAN from the higher voltages used on phone lines.

I have heard of many mistakes where the wrong type has been bought where even in areas where there is no cable TV outlets like PC world have both types on their shelves.

 

[Monkeh]

From memory voltage on phone line around 50 volt which is why we need special router which swaps the voltage to a lower one for the LAN system.

What?

There are two common routers. Those used with cable TV have same voltage in and out and are not suitable for those using telephone lines because of the higher voltages used. There is a special router designed for telephone line use which isolates the LAN from the higher voltages used on phone lines.

I have heard of many mistakes where the wrong type has been bought where even in areas where there is no cable TV outlets like PC world have both types on their shelves.

.. The voltage has absolutely nothing to do with it, and routers do a lot more than just convert voltages. There's a few more than two common devices, too.

I can put a DC offset of 600V down an ethernet cable and it will still work. Chew that one over for a bit.

 

[bernardgreen]

http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wiring/UK_telephone/uk_telephone.html

The speech and dialling circuit are connected across wires 2 and 5 and work on a DC current. With the phone on hook there is no current flow. When the phone is lifted the current flows and this tells the exchange the phone is off hook. With the phone On hook the DC voltage is about 50 volts. OFF hook the voltage drops to about 9 volts due to the current having to flow through resistances at the exchange

The bell is connected between wires 3 and 5, to ring the bell the exchange supplies an AC voltage of 70 to 90 volts to wires 2 and 5. This drives AC current via the capacitor in the master socket to wire 3 and hence through the bell.

DC current cannot pass through the capacitor so the bell ( or sounder ) will not ring on the DC voltage normally on the line.

Phones with only two wires in the plug have there own capacitor to create their own "wire 3" inside the phone.

Micro filters with two pins in their plug have a capacitor to create a "wire 3" in their socket for the phone.

 

[JBR]

I had no idea that such voltages were used in telephones. Can these present any danger?

Sorry if I sound stupid. I know nothing!

 

[Monkeh]

I had no idea that such voltages were used in telephones. Can these present any danger?

Sorry if I sound stupid. I know nothing!

Only if they make you jump and smack your head on the table you're crawling under.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

I had no idea that such voltages were used in telephones. Can these present any danger?

Sorry if I sound stupid. I know nothing!

Only if they make you jump and smack your head on the table you're crawling under.

 

[Bodgeitandleggit]

http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wiring/UK_telephone/uk_telephone.html

The speech and dialling circuit are connected across wires 2 and 5 and work on a DC current. With the phone on hook there is no current flow. When the phone is lifted the current flows and this tells the exchange the phone is off hook. With the phone On hook the DC voltage is about 50 volts. OFF hook the voltage drops to about 9 volts due to the current having to flow through resistances at the exchange

The bell is connected between wires 3 and 5, to ring the bell the exchange supplies an AC voltage of 70 to 90 volts to wires 2 and 5. This drives AC current via the capacitor in the master socket to wire 3 and hence through the bell.

DC current cannot pass through the capacitor so the bell ( or sounder ) will not ring on the DC voltage normally on the line.

Phones with only two wires in the plug have there own capacitor to create their own "wire 3" inside the phone.

Micro filters with two pins in their plug have a capacitor to create a "wire 3" in their socket for the phone.

Bernard , always a fountain of knowledge....I covered this a long time ago but I was always under the impression that the AC voltage was set at 70v and it only came down one wire from the exchange which is the battery leg.....

To the OP , if you have done all you say you have ,tried different phones and changed master socket then it will possibly be a exchange problem ,with the exchange not sending the AC voltage down the line

 

[bernardgreen]

If there is ringing tone at the caller and no bell then it is possible that a short wire 3 to wire 5 has happened. Also a reversal of 2 and 5 between sockets with 3 connected can result in loss of bells if two phones are plugged in. But if a known good phone is plugged in to the back part of the NTE 5 ( master socket ) and this phone does not ring then 90% an exchange fault or one wire in the cable from exchange has a low resistance fault to ground.

Changed the master point 3 times!

What exactly did you change and did it work before you chamged it ?

I was always under the impression that the AC voltage was set at 70v and it only came down one wire from the exchange which is the battery leg.....

If it comes down one wire it has to get back to the exchange, which with one exception is the other wire.

The exception is ( was ) on party lines where two subscribers with different numbers shared one line. To ring one sub the ringing was on A and return via an earth rod, to ring the other sub ringing was on B with return via an earth rod. In this case loss odf ringing could be due to a dried out earth rod and "watering the rod" was the fix.

 

[Bodgeitandleggit]

If there is ringing tone at the caller and no bell then it is possible that a short wire 3 to wire 5 has happened. Also a reversal of 2 and 5 between sockets with 3 connected can result in loss of bells if two phones are plugged in. But if a known good phone is plugged in to the back part of the NTE 5 ( master socket ) and this phone does not ring then 90% an exchange fault or one wire in the cable from exchange has a low resistance fault to ground.

Changed the master point 3 times!

What exactly did you change and did it work before you chamged it ?

I was always under the impression that the AC voltage was set at 70v and it only came down one wire from the exchange which is the battery leg.....

If it comes down one wire it has to get back to the exchange, which with one exception is the other wire.

The exception is ( was ) on party lines where two subscribers with different numbers shared one line. To ring one sub the ringing was on A and return via an earth rod, to ring the other sub ringing was on B with return via an earth rod. In this case loss odf ringing could be due to a dried out earth rod and "watering the rod" was the fix.

Bernard, again a fountain of knowledge........ my memory is not what it used to be but am I right or wrong saying the voltage for the ringing current is set at 70v? ..also if the wire has a leakage or low resistance to ground would this not give ring trip ? ...but the OP says its ringing out but no ring tone in the premises.... bit dubious about changing master socket 3 times though, could he be using slaves?

 

[flyingsparks]

Thanks everyone for all your good replies. I had changed the complete master point and have disconnected the other internal wiring to eliminate that. So with just 2 and 5 connected to the master point I still don't get a ring. It use to work I guess. We moved in and refurbed, during which time we had no phone. Just got a line sorted and I fitted this new master point to tidy things up a bit. And no ring, so may have been a problem for a while. Looks like an exchange fault, but bt line checker says no fault found. Will bt mind that I have been playing with the master point?

 

[Europlex]

Do you have a Multi Meter?

If you have put it on the DC range and connect to the incoming line, with NOTHING else connected, you should have about 49vdc, if not call Openreach.