Builders Extras on single storey extension

[Timmo65]

Hello,
Help,advice, panic mode is on. Comments please on the sudden extras bill close to £10k from the builder for our single storey rear kitchen diner extension. (building quote cost £20k with allowances for waste, a degree of electrics and plumbing). Nothing is/was hidden and all was seen at the quote bar the extra lighting we wanted.

For us the extras we were prepared for was extra lighting (downlighters) and a few minor plumbing things - outside tap and plumbing for fridge freezer.

What we got was a shocker........ most of which should have been included as per the quote. Bearing in mind we are 7 weeks in now and none of this was either mentioned or priced and we suddenly got it dumped on us. Wiring/plumbing is prertty much done first fix and plaster board mostly up. Surprise, surprise we get the extras bill now !

I am seeing the MD of the company tomorrow and hope to discuss this in detail to see what gives. I feel a bit stupid as I have been too trusting not expecting to get turned over. I spoke to him today and he said we would sort things out but what that means I don't know. I want to pay for what is fair and not get ripped off.

Renew existing drain chamber - £250
Extra drilling of steel supports - £350
Board/skim existing dining room kitchen ceilings £500
Board/skim exterior wall of diner to make up for cavity size £250
Extra size of extension - £1500 (apparently 450mm larger than plan)
Electrics
Downlighters 10 £450
Downlighters 12 £480
Remote dimmer £135
8 double sockets £500
Replace smoke detector to hall and fit to kitchen £250
New consumer unit £650 (do I need one ?)
Plumbing £1750 ...
outside tap - fridge feed
rerun mains to new sink point
cap off old gas pipe - no rerun needed
run new services and waste

Any advice please on whats needed/not fair/not. I'm quite prepared to do part/some of this myself and source lights/sockets etc but an extras bill of half the original quote means I may have to sell one of my children.

Help please !

Timmo

sorry just realised I posted this in electrics - mods please move to general building if need be - thanks

 

[flameport]

Electrics
Downlighters 10 £450
Downlighters 12 £480
Remote dimmer £135
8 double sockets £500
Replace smoke detector to hall and fit to kitchen £250
New consumer unit £650 (do I need one ?)

So the best part of £2500 for 'extra' electrics? What did the original quote include?

Unless your extension is massive and all the electrical fittings are gold plated, those prices are very high.
£250 for 2 smoke detectors? Even with the most expensive top quality ones it would be max £50 for parts, so that's at least £200 to fit 2 items!

You need to get a breakdown of the parts and labour those prices supposedly include.

 

[^woody^]

There is no way that any £20k extension should have £10k of extras .... unless you asked for the extra work in addition to the quoted work. The builder should have priced on the plans or to do the work and should know what was reasonably involved, and included it all in is price.

Even if not specifically mentioned, then certain works are associated in a given task and therefore a competent builder should know this and price for it. That is what is expected of him.

Its common for builders to price low to get the job, and then bump up the price with "extras"

You need to get the original quote and see what was included - but also be assertive as to what was deemed to be included.

If the builder is obstructive, then request that an independent surveyor report on the work and the quote and determine what is and is not reasonably include for this type of work, and what are reasonable charges for extra work

 

[Timmo65]

Original quote .. "allowance made to extend exisitng electrical supplies and provide basic ligthing and power supplies to extension - includes 4 No. double switched sockets 1 no light switch and 1 no. pendant fitting per room"
Also allowance for extractor fan which we're not having. Estimate assumes consumer unit is up to the job - no idea how this is tested.

On the smoke alarm they said we had to have a heat alarm in the kitchen/diner linked to the smoke alarm in the hall - said something about having a wireless link !!

Thanks for your time.
Martin

 

[Timmo65]

If the builder is obstructive, then request that an independent surveyor report on the work and the quote and determine what is and is not reasonably include for this type of work, and what are reasonable charges for extra work

Thanks will bear that in mind tomorrow. I appreciate your time.

 

[noseall]

I completely agree with Woodstock as far as extras are concerned.

The most we have ever racked up in extras is £7000 on a £40,000 extension. This amounted to an extra three weeks in labour plus a herd of extra materials.

10k in extras on a 20k job is a joke. Fraud.

 

[flameport]

Original quote .. "allowance made to extend exisitng electrical supplies and provide basic ligthing and power supplies to extension - includes 4 No. double switched sockets 1 no light switch and 1 no. pendant fitting per room"

That's fair enough but still no way that a few extra sockets and changing the lights can be transformed into anything even close to £2500.

Estimate assumes consumer unit is up to the job - no idea how this is tested.

Should have been checked before the quote was done. But - even if the existing one is 50 years old and falling off the wall, there is no requirement to replace it. They could just install a new one for the new circuits, and leave the old one exactly as it is. That would be a couple of hundred at most.
Replacing the old one could be £650 or even more, depending on the condition of the circuits etc.

smoke alarm they said we had to have a heat alarm in the kitchen/diner linked to the smoke alarm in the hall - said something about having a wireless link !!

The smoke and heat alarms are probably required, but should have been included in the original quote - its pretty much a standard requirement for new builds and extensions.
Wireless just means they don't have to run a cable between the 2 detectors - so even quicker and cheaper to install (the wireless bases do cost more, but the costs are offset by the savings in installation time).

 

[baldelectrician]

I can comment on the electrics

I chage per outlet (standard items) so;
Almost ALL items (on larger jobs) are £35.00, each spot, switch dimmer counts as one item. So a 2 gang (double switch) counts as 2.


2 smoke detectors = £70
2 Radio link bases (EI 168- Aico) £85.00 (my cost), cost for fitting them is included in smoke detector item price.

I would suggest the comsumer unit would be in the region of £300
So looking at your price billed I would say £1400-£1500 is a very fair price

This price should include any certification.

Hope this post has helped.

Looking between the lines I feel the builder may have added on a decent margin to give himself a healthier profit on the job.

 

[Timmo65]

Thanks for that. How do I really tell if i need a new consumer unit ? The house is 12 years old the unit is a Hager - 12 slots with 6 free. I'm only going on what they are telling me.
I appreciate everyone needs to make a profit and i'm prepared to pay for it but I just want to make sure I'm not getting turned over.

Timmo

 

[Thermo]

i think unless you stand your ground and go through all the documentation youve got from them, then you will be turned over. Get everything in writing and insist that no extra work is done without it being authorised by you. On the face of it i dont see anything in there that couldnt have been forseen. Question all the extras, and why they were done.

 

[baldelectrician]

The hager unit may need replaced if there is no RCD at all.

Can you post a photo?

If there is 1 RCD then they require to RCD protect the other circuits they work on / install. If it is only 1 additional circuit you can get a RCBO ( they are a bit pricey)

A new consumer unit (not chaep tat like M2 / Proteus / CGD) should be aroung the £120 to nuy amd £200-£300 to fit

found a link to hager units- price excludes MCB's

 

[Timmo65]

Picture of Hager unit - label on left says rcd controlled circuits...

I think its model U762 63A 30 mA

 

[joe-90]

You are the customer and until you part with the cash you are in control of the situation. Make it quite clear that you aren't a soft touch and that if they want their money you are willing for them to take the matter to court unless they start being reasonable. They'll back down.

 

[skenk]

Looking at that there would appear to be absolutely no need for a new CU - plenty of spare ways, use rcbo's for the new circuits. (£30ea) How about a picture with the cover off (switch off first and don't touch anything) and one of the surrounding area (suppliers fuse etc)?

Did they build using the plans? If so it's hardly your fault they've made it bigger than the plans they worked from, what are the BCO going to say if it's bigger than the original plans submitted?

 

[Timmo65]

I'll try and get a pic with the cover off later (mrs watching tv).

Yes they built using the plans. I got the foundations done via another company due to needing piles so this company got the job with the footings in place so only had to go up. The foundations were marginally wider than plan due to a 2.5m deep sewer but they knew about this at the time. The brickie mentioned it and only seemed concerned building control might mention it.
Buillding regs man didn't say a thing when he inspected.