Building a Fence, PD Rules Query

[Aragorn84]

We're just completing on a house purchase, and one of the first things i'd like to do is replace the garden fence to give us some privacy from a path which runs along the side of the house, and create an enclosed back garden as its currently somewhat open.

I've read thru the Permitted development details, and i think i've understood most of it, but i've quickly drawn up a map to show my thoughts:

Point to note is the grey paved area directly to the north of the plot is a footpath, not a road.

From my understanding, the green line can happily be upto 2M high (its currently around 5ft and a bit rickety in places, so i'd like to replace this with a typical 6ft fence).
Red line must be 1M or less, as its in the front curtailage and fronts a road. This is fine as it is and i wont be touching it.
White line shows the "front curtailage" i believe.
Orange line i'm not sure about, Likely its also limited to 1M as its in the front curtailage, but thats fine.
Blue line is where the big question mark lies.

Its facing the road, but its in the rear curtailage. I think i'll be fine to build a 6ft fence here to give me an enclosed rear garden area.

Can anyone confirm this for me?

 

[clifford1]

I'm no expert, but I think I am right that

1) Curtilage is the entire plot associated with the house - in normal circumstances, the garden. There is no such thing as a front curtilage and a back curtilage.
But I agree there is a fence rule distinguishing front and back in some manner.

2) I believe the height restriction is if "adjacent to a highway". Adjacent has been defined as within 1m, but the highway includes the verge, and I think a public footpath is still a highway.

Subject to correction, as always.

 

[mattylad]

The green line is adjacent ot the highway, one used by cars and possibly pedestrians so no, you cannot put up a 2m fence unless you get PP.

Blue line would be fine as it is not adjacent to the highway.

 

[kingandy2nd]

As the other guys said, the green is highway adjacent as highway doesn't necessarily mean road.

I've looked high and low for where it definitively says from what distance away something stops becoming highway adjacent, but there is nothing in black and white to say exactly. General opinion seems to be 4m back.

However,you can replace any existing fence with one of equivalent height without pp. so you could consider a 5ft fence then maybe stick some trellis up. Alternatively there is no restrictions on planting, so hedges or conifers could give you privacy.

If you felt naughty you could just replace the 5ft fence with a 6ft one and leave it be. If you were ever challenged by the council you could just claim you replaced like for like and that the old fence was 6ft...who's to know.

 

[Aragorn84]

matty: the green line runs adjacent to a footpath, not a road.

But fair enough if the "highway" restriction includes footpaths.

I guess the other option is just to apply for PP. Is it something i'm likely to get approved? Looking along the footpath on streetview, quite a few other houses that back onto the footpath have high fences.

Looking again the existing fence is more like 4ft rather than 5, really not high enough to keep the dog in the garden, so a like for like replacement wouldnt really be tall enough. Hedges would be a last resort i guess, dont really fancy the maintenance etc!

 

[tony1851]

I guess the other option is just to apply for PP. Is it something i'm likely to get approved?

Why worry about this? Why on earth give £172 to the council just to ask them to condescend to give YOU permission for a fence on YOUR property?
You may as well just stuff the cash down the grid - the end result would be the same.

Just put the effing fence up at 6ft. If everyone else has got one what's the council going to do?

 

[Aragorn84]

If everyone else has got one what's the council going to do?

Tell me to take it down?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Aye but that's about all they will do, write some snotty letters and see it hasn't got permission and they want you to make an app but taking it further costs money.

 

[tony1851]

If everyone else has got one what's the council going to do?

Tell me to take it down?

Do you imagine that one morning a snotty little man with a file comes round from the council and says: "excuse me, my man, I'm ordering you to take this fence down - now"?.

No. LPAs have to be very careful about taking enforcement action. Official guidance to them makes it clear that enforcement is not appropriate for a 'minor or technical breach where no harm has occurred'. Would your fence be a technical breach?: yes; would any harm have been caused?: almost certainly not. In fact, you could claim it reduces the potential for crime as high fences stop burglars decking over gardens.

As FMT said, you may get a threatening letter from the council headed 'Town and Country Planning Act 1990, section xyz, blah blah', and threatening all sorts of dire consquences short of a public hanging, but officials like doing this - it makes them feel important and is a little 'perk' of the job.

But it won't go any further. Just do it.