Building garage wall on property boundary line

[volks]

My neighbour wants to build a garage on the side of his property and has suggested we remove the aging fence (my fence line) and use his garage wall as the new wall between our properties.

I'm against the idea as it'll mean having a big concrete wall visible from my garden, but is this also against planning regulations, or are you able to build onto the boundary line?

He sis menton assing guttering which I instructed wasn't allowed as it will overhang my property line, so will hopefully use that as leverage to encourage him to leave a gap if he proceeds with his plan.

Otherwise, what are the regulations and rules for a garage being built right up to the boundary line between two properties?

 

[Diver Fred]

My garage I built, 1998, on the boundary line - the outer face is right on the boundary. the gap between the neighbours house and my house is only 24 feet. The neighbour when I built the garage measured up the line with and agreed that I wasn't in his property. The new neighbours are happy with the building as well.
The planning office didn't query or object to the building on the boundary. I do not have any gutter on the neighbour's side as the garage has a flat roof with the fall to towards my side.
If you have concerns about the legality of building onto the edge of the property insist he has full plans approved by the local planning office.

 

[volks]

Thanks for the reply. After a bit of research it looks like as it'll be attached to his house, it'll need planning permission anyway as it's considered an extension, if I understood it correctly, so hopefully that will remedy any problems, if it's true

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

There are many extensions to a house that can be done without planning permission, there's not enough information to know if it would be permitted development or not. Anyway, who owns the fence? In any case as you say, his gutter cannot overhang the boundary though he may be able to site the gutter on another elevation. He can build up to the boundary though if there's a fence straggling the boundary he cannot, tread carefully as presumably his garage will presumably end up higher than the fence and you could end up looking at unfinished concrete blockwork rather than say a rendered wall.

 

[volks]

There are many extensions to a house that can be done without planning permission, there's not enough information to know if it would be permitted development or not. Anyway, who owns the fence? In any case as you say, his gutter cannot overhang the boundary though he may be able to site the gutter on another elevation. He can build up to the boundary though if there's a fence straggling the boundary he cannot, tread carefully as presumably his garage will presumably end up higher than the fence and you could end up looking at unfinished concrete blockwork rather than say a rendered wall.

Thanks for the reply. I thought as it was attached to the building it required permission. (I also read it has to be 1 meter from any fence lines for fire safety, but that may also be incorrect)

It's my fence line, and my property ground level is higher than his, so presumably I wouldn't see it over the fence so long as the fence remains. As I say he wants to build up to the fence line and remove the fence so his wall is my new fence, which I'm opposed to, as I initially started. He offered the solution both as a cost saving (so I wouldn't need a new retaining wall on that section and to save on fence panels/posts) and I presume so he can maximise his garages foot print.

I did point out the prospect of 1.5 feet of dirt resting on his garage wall won't be great, though I don't think he fully grasped the implications of that, stating it would be protected.

He also seemed fairly set on the gutter being on the side of the fence line. So there may be some awkward conversations to come.

 

[Koolpc]

There are many extensions to a house that can be done without planning permission, there's not enough information to know if it would be permitted development or not. Anyway, who owns the fence? In any case as you say, his gutter cannot overhang the boundary though he may be able to site the gutter on another elevation. He can build up to the boundary though if there's a fence straggling the boundary he cannot, tread carefully as presumably his garage will presumably end up higher than the fence and you could end up looking at unfinished concrete blockwork rather than say a rendered wall.

Make the fence higher then!

 

[volks]

Make the fence higher then!

Unfortunately I can't, it's already the maximum permitted height from my ground level, irrespective of the ground level his side.

 

[^woody^]

Three distinct areas of law will apply.

1. The Party Wall Act.

2. Planning permission is required. This can not be done under permitted development.

3. Property Law (the house deeds). The gutter or eaves overhang (unless a recessed gutter is formed) will require consent as an easement or licence, else will be a trespass.

In the case of 1&2, if the necessary formalities are followed, the work would be permitted. For 3, you will need to agree and it would be wise for the deeds to be altered accordingly.

If you agree there are implications.

 

[mrrusty]

TBH, if he wants it, it'll probably get built. The question to ask is "do you want a building 2" inside your fence, which will then be a PITA to maintain, and a wall that looks horrible or do you want a boundary wall that becomes, if you agree, a new party wall which should be well finished, but as a party wall would allow you to fix to and build off in the future (or any future owner of your house). It'll add more value as a shared party wall than an unsightly wall just inside an unsightly fence.

Personally, I'd cooperate and perhaps say he can straddle the boundary, if he builds it in an attractive brick with proper ground retention.

BTW, the 15 and 30sqm rules, plus the 1m to boundary rules apply to outbuildings under permitted development, not attached extensions.

 

[volks]

TBH, if he wants it, it'll probably get built. The question to ask is "do you want a building 2" inside your fence, which will then be a PITA to maintain, and a wall that looks horrible or do you want a boundary wall that becomes, if you agree, a new party wall which should be well finished, but as a party wall would allow you to fix to and build off in the future (or any future owner of your house). It'll add more value as a shared party wall than an unsightly wall just inside an unsightly fence.

Personally, I'd cooperate and perhaps say he can straddle the boundary, if he builds it in an attractive brick with proper ground retention.

BTW, the 15 and 30sqm rules, plus the 1m to boundary rules apply to outbuildings under permitted development, not attached extensions.

Thanks for the reply. Honestly I'm more inclined to have the fence my side and for them to build a garage their side, rather than paying for a combined wall that's massive, will cost a lot and requires a party wall agreement and has all the stipulations around when it comes to modifying it. Just feels like a lot more work involved than just having a fence against his proposed garage.

 

[mrrusty]

rather than paying for a combined wall that's massive

you pay nothing, it's just your condition for him to build this way. It doesn't need a PWA by the sound of it anyway - fences are excluded so unless it's within 3m of your house, it's quite likely exempt from the PWA rules. By "massive" - it'll be the same height probably either on the boundary or just inside it. In fact, if you are not allowing the guttering on your side, you'll most likely get the high side!

 

[volks]

Interesting. Overall it's a weird situation, the garage he wants won't be the full length of the current fence line, so it'd need fencing up to the garage wall and then beyond the end of it again, so it'll look a bit piecemeal with joins and different surfaces, which is also kind of unsightly.

Apologies if I misrepresented this in my original post

 

[mrrusty]

Bottom line is, in principle a side extension up to the boundary is likely to be allowed under either permitted development or planning. If it's PD, he can just build it - only building regs will apply, but that's a compliance issue not a can you/can't you build it decision. Without knowing the detail it's difficult to say what planning restrictions there could conceivably be, but chances are, not enough to prevent the build.

 

[Tetrarch]

What you are proposing is for him to compromise the internal size of his extension, so this is likely to be a thorny issue.

Guttering aside there is nothing to stop him building right up to the boundary line.

Assuming that you currently have your 2" fence panels between 4" fence posts on the boundary line, his extension would push any new panel 1" in towards your property (if the panels were directly attached to his new wall)

There is room for compromise that if he'd lose 2" from his extension then you could keep the fence on its existing line (if the posts were attached to his new wall) , but that you would accept his guttering overhanging your property. Visually, that might be a good compromise.

Regards

Tet