Hi looking for advice , I am building up over a solid 9 inch wall above a timber wall plate which carries a 5x4m slate roof and am wondering what to do with the existing wall plate as i assume i cannot build a 9 foot high outer skin on top of 4x3 timber, I was thinking of temporarily retaining the old timbers with 6x2 then fastening a wall plate above the joists onto the new wall cutting the old joists flush with the new wall then strapping the joists to it so they hang so to speak from the new wall plate I dont really want to put the new wall plate below the old joists because this would intrude into the kitchen etc thanks, Frank2
building up over a wall plate
- Thread starter frank2
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In this instance we would first acro-prop the joists a foot or two in from the wall.
Next, cut the joist ends so that you can fit a build-in joist hanger onto the end of the joist, cutting off just enough as to afford a full bearing of the build-in hanger.
Then build up the wall ensuring the masonry sits snug beneath the joist hanger bearing point.
Job's a good-un.
Build-in joist hanger (not jiffy/speedy type)
Next, cut the joist ends so that you can fit a build-in joist hanger onto the end of the joist, cutting off just enough as to afford a full bearing of the build-in hanger.
Then build up the wall ensuring the masonry sits snug beneath the joist hanger bearing point.
Job's a good-un.
Build-in joist hanger (not jiffy/speedy type)
Or ..... cut out a bit of wall plate every 1200-1500mm or so, drop a brick in so its just above the wall plate, and then span some concrete lintels across them, and build up off these. Bring the outside skin up as normal
You will have the protect the wallplate with some DPC though to stop it getting wet in the wall
You will have the protect the wallplate with some DPC though to stop it getting wet in the wall
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chop out wall plate in between roof timbers leaving 1" either side as bearer then block in between onto old brick work then build over, for me this will cause least disruption to room below and hopefully will be"easiest" to carry out, Frank
My neighbour is adding a first floor to an existing bungalow and just built directly on to the existing timber wall plate with eight courses of concrete block! This on the inner wall (which will receive an outer skin of facing bricks) and will have a new wall plate fitted to carry trussed rafters for the higher new roof.
Surely the building regs inspector can't pass it with a strip of timber in the wall? Will it compress and rot over time causing cracks and instability?
Surely the building regs inspector can't pass it with a strip of timber in the wall? Will it compress and rot over time causing cracks and instability?
Only if it gets constantly wet
It is an example of poor workmanship at the very least. You would be bonkers to leave a swathe of timber sandwiched within the masonry having had a chance to remove it, particularly if said timber is in a load-reactive position.
Well there are lots of houses with a bit of 4x2 over windows and a brickwork above with no problems ..... unless the timber gets constantly wet and rot sets in
It is considered bad practice to build on timber, but in reality the only issue is that timber will alter with humidity and so may cause brickwork or plaster above it to crack slightly. But structurally, timber will be fine to build on if not (like any material) overloaded
It is considered bad practice to build on timber, but in reality the only issue is that timber will alter with humidity and so may cause brickwork or plaster above it to crack slightly. But structurally, timber will be fine to build on if not (like any material) overloaded
Unless you are unlucky enough to have some force grown rubbish from Scandanavia or Canada that is all wind and pith.
Or you may be lucky and have some seasoned old English oak.
However, all a hungry wood borer wants is a good meal regardless of where the lumber was grown...
However, all a hungry wood borer wants is a good meal regardless of where the lumber was grown...
True ... better not show him the timber first floor then. Or the roof
Thanks for the contributions so far. They confirm what I as a none builder had suspected. I guess the new blocks can't be bonded to the wall below either as the wall plate is nearly the full width of the blocks?
I imagine correctly used timber in a building can be seen and replaced without major failure. Doubt that's the case with wood hidden in the wall. What a risk for future generations and the quality of the buildings we leave them.
Does anyone know if there are any rules or regulations re this that an inspector would have to apply? Timber is not brick, block or stone after all.
What, do you mean just like blocks are not bonded to DPC, or a steel beam or lintel?
If this is the neighbours house, and inside, then why is it bothering you?
There are no rules about this. If it can be demonstrated that the wall is structurally sound, then it is OK
Or just pop round and tell the neighbour that you suspect that the BCO is not doing his job properly. Or phone up the BCO's manager and complain
The BCO for this site lives six doors down the road and I wonder if he did the same when he put a similar top on his own bungalow about five years ago. Will have to wait and see what happens on his next visit. I'm really not making this up.
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