BUSH A127QW washing machine fills then drains does not wash :(

[john_john]

I'm only judging from a blurry photo, but the carbon of the brush tip, appears not to be a good match to the comm..

The entire face of a carbon brush, should be in full contact with the comm..

These are compatible brushes for my machine they’re a match to ones I took off.

Blurry photo??? That photo is crystal clear and well lit, I even used a secondary light source than just the flash! it’s a gorgeous picture.

 

[john_john]

Your commutator is very dirty, but I am not qualified enough to say that it would be responsible, on it own, to make the buzzing noise.

My heat pump tumble dryer recently went down that path. I had a slight buzz- took the machine apart and used my hand to spin the drum. It then spun without issue. In my case it was the motor capacitor that had failed. Cost me a tenner for a generic replacement.

I cannot say that is your problem. With my tumble dryer, it would buzz but not spin without an inertial nudge, nevertheless that doesn't explain the tripping that you previously experienced. At a guess,, I would say that perhaps you had more than one failure. Again, I am only guessing...

Should the commutator be copper coloured?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Should the commutator be copper coloured?

The comm. IS copper. Copper segments, insulated one from the next one by a tiny gap. In the photo, it looks as if the leftmost edge of the brush, is barely touching the comm, with a large gap on the right. Brushes should be nice, snug fit, matching the contour of the comm., perfectly.

Not suggesting you try this, but the usual way to get a snug fit, is to wrap a narrow strip of sandpaper around the comm., then with the brushes in place, you rotate the shaft, to get the correct profile.

Difficult to judge from a photo, but that comm. appears to be quite black, maybe burnt and worn.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

These are compatible brushes for my machine they’re a match to ones I took off.

Blurry photo??? That photo is crystal clear and well lit, I even used a secondary light source than just the flash! it’s a gorgeous picture.

I appreciate your photographic efforts, but it is still difficult to judge.

You provide two photographs of the brushes earlier, but you didn't add comment to the photos, explaining which were new which were old ones. Yep, I know it appears obvious, but... Could you identify them?

 

[john_john]

Pics

These ones are the old ones the ones on the machine are the new ones.

 

[john_john]

The comm. IS copper. Copper segments, insulated one from the next one by a tiny gap. In the photo, it looks as if the leftmost edge of the brush, is barely touching the comm, with a large gap on the right. Brushes should be nice, snug fit, matching the contour of the comm., perfectly.

Not suggesting you try this, but the usual way to get a snug fit, is to wrap a narrow strip of sandpaper around the comm., then with the brushes in place, you rotate the shaft, to get the correct profile.

Difficult to judge from a photo, but that comm. appears to be quite black, maybe burnt and worn.

The comm. IS copper. Copper segments, insulated one from the next one by a tiny gap. In the photo, it looks as if the leftmost edge of the brush, is barely touching the comm, with a large gap on the right. Brushes should be nice, snug fit, matching the contour of the comm., perfectly.

Not suggesting you try this, but the usual way to get a snug fit, is to wrap a narrow strip of sandpaper around the comm., then with the brushes in place, you rotate the shaft, to get the correct profile.

Difficult to judge from a photo, but that comm. appears to be quite black, maybe burnt and worn.

Hi thanks.

Yes I know it is made from copper but it’s a well used machine wouldn’t the copper become darkened from use? Or you’re saying even in well used machines the commutator should still be copper coloured?

Is it normal procedure to sand them down to fit the commutator?

 

[jj4091]

As Harry says the new brushes are not making enough contact with the commutator. It may be they have just been assembled wrongly or they are the wrong ones, they do not look to be as good a quality as the originals. Can you get the brush out of the carrier and flip them so that the angle of the tip of the brush follows the contour of the holder and the com.

 

[john_john]

As Harry says the new brushes are not making enough contact with the commutator. It may be they have just been assembled wrongly or they are the wrong ones, they do not look to be as good a quality as the originals. Can you get the brush out of the carrier and flip them so that the angle of the tip of the brush follows the contour of the holder and the com.

I took it off again after he first wrote that to make certain the angle they are shaped coincides with how I mounted them and it is the same, it’s just that it isn’t as sharp of an angle, they’re mounted properly as well with the two small securing posts on the plastic shell of the carbon brushes fitting into the motor frame holes to secure it from moving, they fit the mounting perfectly. they look just like the ones that came off it too. So for certain when brand new brushes go on they have to make full contact with the commutator across the entire face of the piece of carbon? They don’t just wear down to assume that shape after a while? Sorry if that’s dumb question this is all new to me. Thanks for your help everyone too.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

They don’t just wear down to assume that shape after a while?

They do bed in more fully, in use, but even when first fitted, they should be a reasonable match to the shape/angle of the comm..

Yes, the comm. should show some darkening after use, but as part of the job of fitting new brushes, I would closely inspect the comm., looking for any damage, or signs of arcing between segments. I might even take the motor apart, and attempt to refurbish the comm., by skimming it in the lath, and undercutting, between the segments.

 

[john_john]

Right gotcha.

The contact point where a brush touches the commutator is referred to as the commutating plane. To conduct sufficient current to or from the commutator, the brush contact area is not a thin line but instead a rectangular patch across the segments. Typically the brush is wide enough to span 2.5 commutator segments. This means that two adjacent segments are electrically connected by the brush when it contacts both.

So would just a thin line of contact on the commutator cause the machine to not fill and drain out in an even shorter period of time than befor with the old carbon brushes? as that is the new behaviour since putting theses new brushes in with improper contact with the commutator.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

So would just a thin line of contact on the commutator cause the machine to not fill and drain out in an even shorter period of time than befor with the old carbon brushes?

There is that possibility! Modern washing machines, closely monitor the motor current, versus behaviour. Any misbehaviour, in the first attempts to run the motor, and the machine will abort the process, and pump out.

 

[john_john]

There is that possibility! Modern washing machines, closely monitor the motor current, versus behaviour. Any misbehaviour, in the first attempts to run the motor, and the machine will abort the process, and pump out.

Ahh right then. Thanks harry.

 

[jj4091]

I am not saying that you only have one fault but those brushes definitely will not be helping. If you look at the pics of the old brushes the angle on the tip of the brush clearly follows the angle on the end of the holder. Whereas in img 0247 you can see that the angle of the brush tip is running the opposite way to the end of the brush holder. Your own research says that is no good so take the brushes out of the holders and flip them round as your first step.

 

[john_john]

I am not saying that you only have one fault but those brushes definitely will not be helping. If you look at the pics of the old brushes the angle on the tip of the brush clearly follows the angle on the end of the holder. Whereas in img 0247 you can see that the angle of the brush tip is running the opposite way to the end of the brush holder. Your own research says that is no good so take the brushes out of the holders and flip them round as your first step.

Thanks for your help harry and all others too.

No they were the right way in the ends of the carbon brushes were just a different angle than the commutator. Anyhow I’ve taken them out and sanded them down to an angle so they are flush on the commutator but now when I plug the machine in it blows a fuse in the plug and trips the breaker.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

but now when I plug the machine in it blows a fuse in the plug and trips the breaker.

Does it blow, if you isolate the connections to the motor?