I was clearing out the shed today and having found some old cable I got to thinking: We had Red & Black for line and neutral (and for + & - on DC) and Red, Yellow and Blue for 3 phase for as long as I remember. So who was responsible for changing this? First we get a phase colour (blue) becoming Neutral and brown for line (previously used in some cases for 24 VDC) and then 3 phase becomes totally incongrious Brown , black and Grey, making Black, usually considered a "safe" colour, live. I have to wonder how many people (notwithstanding the general advice to "prove dead") have had a shock off the black, and why was it necessary to select such stupid colours.
Cable Colours
- Thread starter maltaron
- Start date
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SaladFingers
The same brigade who made all fire extinguishers the same colour, apart from a small label telling you what it is, to study when you're in a blind panic looking to put a fire out.
anybody working on a 3P+N circuit should really be competent enough to know that black is L2 and not neutral
Of course there is black in 3C+E but that should be sleeved brown anyway
Of course there is black in 3C+E but that should be sleeved brown anyway
Keep it - you can still use it. It's ideal for extending/modifying installations which are still all red&black.
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SaladFingers
In fact, you've just reminded me, I've a near full reel of 2.5 T+E in red and black and possibly some 1.5 knocking around.
I'll probably never use it, though.
I'll probably never use it, though.
Not in the eyes of the IET you can't
That's not to stop a DIYer using the old colours, but I doubt the NIC/NAPIT/ELECSA etc etc would be all that impressed to find old colours on an addition/modification
http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-regulations/cable-colours/index.cfm
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SaladFingers
I did have to make sure I had my facts straight before I dared to!
In answer to the original O/P, the EU of course!
What is not widely known is that they wanted 3 phase cable to be - 3 browns with no other marking, it was only because of pressure from the UK (mainly the supply industry) that the present 3 colours were introduced!
What is not widely known is that they wanted 3 phase cable to be - 3 browns with no other marking, it was only because of pressure from the UK (mainly the supply industry) that the present 3 colours were introduced!
I have no problem with cores of the same colour (I'm a big fan of YY cable, which is generally all black cores marked 1,2 etc with G/Y cpc) but if they're not pre-marked cores then I could see it being a PITA
where would I find this in BS7671?
Because all I can find is the mention of identifying the old and new cable colours and addition of warning notices. There is nothing that I can find, that actual states that old coloured cables cannot be newly fitted.
As I understand it the UK concept of usually, on the LV system, being able to trace each phase from the substation to the end (?) connection is rare on the continent, as is the concept of the DNO (or equivalent) stating the phase rotation.
Actually we can do this from generator to end user!
Apparently when the concept was explained to our continental neighbours they though it a brilliant idea!!
Actually we can do this from generator to end user!
Apparently when the concept was explained to our continental neighbours they though it a brilliant idea!!
Appendix 7, which of course is informative says:
Which implies that's it known that you can only use brown/blue brown/black/grey as it was required by 514-04 of BS7671:2004
Beyond, I can't find anything else[/quote]
it was going to be brown black black, but would only be able to tell which black was which on 4 core cables, no good when 90% of new mains distribution is 3 core cables, western power wanted to have 3 brown cores with numbers, the same as old paper insulated cables(pilc and consac) but that was against the new regs
as with everything else that was harmonised, we should have put 2 fingers up to the EU and kept Red Yellow Blue and Black. Stupid ignoramous idiots wiritng regulations and rules from desks.
Now you can have a pretty little sticker on a panel door and then find a multitude of blue and black neutrals inside.Not very helpful at all.
Now you can have a pretty little sticker on a panel door and then find a multitude of blue and black neutrals inside.Not very helpful at all.
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